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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2011 at 13:34
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Hi all, first post.

I'm in the process of upgrading binoculars for hunting.  I primarily hunt here in Iowa where I get pretty good light transmission wherever I'm hunting and have been using Nikon Monarch ATB 8x42s for the past 5 or 6 years?  Anyway, they're beat up and now that I've "grown up" so to say I'm wanting to get my last pair of binoculars. 

In the future I will likely be hunting much more open terrain like Nebraska, South Dakota, Wyoming, Kansas so I'm going to keep my old 8x42s and get some 10x42s for the upgrade.  At the moment I've pretty much whittled it down to Swarovski 10x42 EL's.  I have a buddy who has a pair that are 3 years old, mint condition, and still has an open warranty card that can be sent in.  He will unload them for $1300, which I've heard is a steal.  Anyway, I'm torn because if I spend that much why not go "whole hog" and just get the High Def glass EL's? 

Any optics gurus out there is there much/any difference between the two in clarity, light transmission, eye relief, etc?  For whatever reason I am able to tell the difference between every bino I look thru and thus far NOTHING stands close to the EL's.

That being said, I've heard absolutely fantastic reviews on Zen Ray ED2 series and how for $425 I could get a 10x43 bino that will stand side by side with EL's.  Is this true?

Also, if there is another website that has excellent information responses I'd be open to them as I've done a lot of research and I don't want to spend my hard earned money and be mad I made the wrong decision.  Thus far the best response I've gotten from someone is...

"Buy Swarovski, in 25 years you will look back and say, Thank God I spend the money on these"

Thanks in advance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2011 at 13:35
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I also wear glasses 100% of the time so the screw out cup features on most binoculars really hold no interest to me so long as I can get the bino flush to my glasses.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2011 at 14:06
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*sigh*

Another thing I need to consider is durability, warranty, and anti fogging.  I will sit thru rain, fog, sleet, snow, and just about anything that doesn't include lightning to kill a deer so I want something that will not let me down at the moment of truth.  Beings this will likely be my last binocular purchase I have been saving up $$$ and am prepared to spend the money.

Thanks again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 09:15
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Buying the best glass you can afford is never a bad idea.  I either own or have owned some really nice glass like the Trinovid and  SLCneu.  I have also been helping my buddy guide mule deer,aoudad, and antelope hunts for the past 15 years or so.  I've had hunters come in using Zeiss FL, EL, SLC, Ultravids, and everything in between.  To satisfy my own curiosities I always do a side by side comparison with those and my Elite's, Zen ED2, my buddy's Cabelas Euro, my Leuplold Gold Ring Hd, a Pentax SP, and probably a few others I'm forgetting.  I'm not a big fan of the open bridge EL's because we've trashed two pair over the past 3 years.  I don't think their anywhere near as tough as an SLCneu GR HD, or Trinovid.  What I've found is that the high dollar euro stuff will not show you game that any of the mid priced stuff I've mentioned won't show you 98% as well.  There's little you can do about external fogging on the lens.  Like one knowledgable guy here posted, the euro "alpha" stuff is way, way overpriced and not worth what they cost. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 09:49
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I think the "Alphas" are still the top of the heap.  They offer it all :  Impressive optics, quality build, lifetime warranty, name brand prestige, good ergonomics.

The upper-middle level binoculars (Meopta Meostar, Vortex Razor, Pentax ED, Minox HG, etc.) offer better value with few compromises in any area.  Most of these equal or even sometimes better the Alphas in any one of the above categories.

The lower-middle level binoculars (Zen Ray, Hawke, Theron, etc.) offer even better value in that they offer that near-alpha optical performance.  They do, however, have to compromise heavily in some areas, most notably name brand prestige.  I have the Zen Ray ED 10X43 and it is an optical marvel at its price point.  JGRaider is right in that I can spot any game through the Zen the Alphas will show me.  However, there is no doubt that the workmanship and appearance is a step (or two) behind the Alphas.

I you are saving for your "last" pair of binoculars, and can afford,it, go ahead and save for a top-of-the-line instrument.  Enjoy it.  Just be aware that you are not paying for a practical hunting performance upgrade, IMO.

Personally, I am always on the look out for a deal on an Alpha that puts it close to the upper-middle price range, and when I find the right deal, I will jump on it.  I will not be getting rid of all my middle range binoculars to do it however.

$1300 is a good price for an EL, and it is an excellent binocular, but I think there are better optical performers in the Alpha ranks.  I prefer the SLC neu to the EL due to superior CA control and a flatter field.  It also seems more rugged (on par with the tank-like build of the Meopta Meostar).

As far as the new super-duper binoculars go, I checked out the new Swarovision EL, and I can tell you it is impressive indeed.  But the cost of that remarkable edge performance is a pronounced rolling ball effect while panning.  If that doesn't bother you, it is probably the best of the best, but its price is also in the plain ridiculous realm.  I have yet to look through an SLC HD, but I would like to, the buzz is pretty good about that one.

Keep us updated on your decision.  No matter which way you go, you will likely see a pretty big improvement over your older Monarchs.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 10:35
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Muddy,
 
JG and Matt make good points.  I am pretty well of the opinion that the alpha is not really worth what they cost.  I will not argue the point they are a better instrument.  There has been a decades old perception that to get a really good binocular you have to get one from europe.  Still true, but since Pentax first phase corrected their mid price offering back in 1996, the difference between the alpha and the rest has been cut in half every five years or so.  That performance gap is pretty small now.  The price gap has accelerated.  The brand prestige perception remains and probably will.
 
Truth be told, you really don't have to spend more than $4-500 for a binocular that will do whatever you need it to do for you.  You really don't need to top $1,000 for a new one either.  I have had the ZEN ED and ED 2 ever since they first came out.  I think my 7x36 ED 2 may be the first one to actually hit a customer's hands.  That and the 10x43 and I'm set.  However, after reviewing the new Theron recently, soon as I can, I'll have a Theron APO ED Wapiti 8x42, and that is $389. 
 
I see Vortex has its new HD stuff out on its website now too.  The Razor has hit almost $1,300 and I'd sure like to see a new one.  The Viper HD too.  I think the Talon HD is just the Vortex version of the ZEN ED 2 and Vortex just morphed it from its Atlas Intrepid guise into the Vortex Talon HD.
 
Meopta makes a good sub $1,000 glass in the Meostar and you can get Leupold Gold Rings for not much nowadays.
 
But you are the one who has to live with the choice, not me.  As far as the $1,300 EL goes it is a good deal.  But it is now one model down from their top EL these days too.  So in my view it depends on how far you have to strain the $$$ to get the $1,300.  You will get a really good glass for the money at the asking price for the EL.


Edited by Klamath - January/10/2011 at 10:41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 13:37
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Well dangit, now you guys have me backing up a little from the Swaro's.  Making it seem like they're overrated and over priced?  I agree they're pricey but I've never heard a bad thing about them in terms of performance, BUT, I've only ever talked to guys who used them strictly for hunting purposes.

So, I almost feel like I gotta start over with what I'm looking at?

What would be NICE is a store that had all the stuff in stock that I wanted to look thru.  I can't find any Nikons better than the Monarch X, which I thought sucked.  I've heard wonderful things about the Nikon Premiere series tho.  I've looked thru Zeiss and Meopta and didn't like them so didn't look any further into them at all.  I checked out some Gold Rings at a Bass Pro shop and thought that my Monarchs were as good to MY EYES as the Gold Rings were so gave up on Leupold. 

One set that sticks out in my mind are some $700 Burris binos that were surprisingly clear when I took them outside and compared them to the Swaro EL HDs. 

I have a screwy astigmatism and some "floaties" as the eye doctor calls it so maybe I'm just screwed whichever way I go?  I do want to take a look at some ZenRay ED2 10x43s.  They may be a "newer" company but it sounds like they take care of their customers and their product is very very good and can stand with the 'alphas' as you put it.  I remember a bow company named Bowtech that came out years ago and I bought one of their bows on a whim.  It was awesome and now they're even better than before.

Thanks for the responses, please hit me with some more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 16:32
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I called the store and the Burris binos I really liked were 10x42 Burris Signature Selects @ $629.  I personally thought they were much nicer than the $1200 Leupold and Zeiss I looked at some other day.

I have a Burris Fullfield II on my muzzleloader and absolutely love it.

To ask yet another question, what are you top 5-8 binos that are in the 10x42-50 area?  why?  Please go off of customer service, quality, and ability to see in low light situations.

Thanks again, this thread will continue for awhile as I'm now reconsidering the idea that expensive is better.  I think I need to see the Zen Ray 10x43's before I even consider buying. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 16:49
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I've got a friend that has Burris SIgnature Selects and he loves 'em.

Trust your eyes.

I meant in no way to say that ELs were poor glass.  They are, in fact, one of the finest binoculars in the world. I would just take other choices for $1300.

Were the Zeiss you looked at Victory FL?  they are really fine performers.

My 10X42 list with your conditions (I noticed price was not one of them)

1. Zeiss Victory FL
2. Leica Ultravid HD
3. Swarovski SLC (I am guessing the HD would be even better, but I haven't seen one)
4. Meopta Meostar
5. Nikon EDG
6. Vortex Razor
7. ZEN ED
8. Vortex Viper

Your question really made me think.  I am a big proponent of the "value" brands, but when you take price out, there they are at the top, the "Big Three."  If you add price as a factor it shakes up the order, and it would probably take me a month to figure out the list.

Keep us updated, muddy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 16:57
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That is a tough question, and I'll try to answer it in two ways from glass I've actually used:

Money no object:
Swaro SLC HD
Zeiss FL 
Leica Ultravid HD
Nikon EDG
Steiner Preregrine XP

The best combination of $$,service,and glass
Swaro SLCneu
Leupold Gold Ring HD
Meopta / Cabelas Euro
Bushnell Elite
Zen Ray ED2
Leica Trinovid

I've never seen a Vortex Razor or it would probably be in there somewhere.  Muddy, the only rec I could give the Burris Signature Select is that John Barsness, a prominent outdoor writer, had high praise for them.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 17:34
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From what I've been able to tell, I believe the Burris Signature binos (if they are the open hinge design) are the exact same bino as the previous (non - HD) generation Vortex Razor except with different rubber armor.  Put them side by side and you can see that the size, shape, specs, and subtle design features are pretty much the same. 
 
The view through the upper mid level binos are so close to alpha quality that it's really is hard for lots of folks to justify the price of the alphas anymore.  The Meopta Meostar / Vortex Razor / Leupold Gold Ring HD / Bushnell Elite / Zen Ray ED2 level binos come so close to alpha performance (at least optically) that you have to really nit pick to see the difference.
 
One notable exception is if you plan to get a "no compromises" mid size (32mm obj) or compact binocular.  The alphas shine here because, from my observation at least, they seem to provide fewer optical compromises you'd normally expect in exchange for their small size vs. less expensive mid and compact binos.
 
If your occupation or a hobby you're really passionate about involves lots of glassing and you want to get one really great binocular you plan to use for the rest of your life, I can also see where "going alpha" is a good choice.  Amortized over a lifetime of use, the high price tag isn't so bad in exchange for enjoying many years of spectacular views and pride of owning good equipment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 17:56
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Why so many votes for the SLCs?  I was always under the impression that those short little buggers were not as nice as the ELs?

To whittle it down, I'm not going to be able to spend more than $1500 I don't think.  Not unless I want to save up birthdays and Christmass for the next 3 years, which I really don't want to.

Another thing I'm trying to get is getting a pair of 10x binos that will be better in low light than my current ones.  I figure that by getting an Alpha bino I will accomplish this as they have higher quality glass?  I apologize for so many fragmented thoughts, I have been mostly posting from my blackberry as I'm a stay at home dad, I tend to get side tracked and distracted with 3 kids under the age of 2 years old.

The only reason I have the Swaro EL in there is because my buddy will sell me his for $1300 in mint condition and they have the open warranty card he didn't fill out. 

The more I read up on consumer reports, as well as on here, I see so many high marks for Zen Ray that I think I need to check those suckers out before I get too crazy.  On Archery Talk everyone says that the ED2s are so close to Alpha quality that they think there's something illegal going on with the glass!

Looking thru the big lists up there I also can say I haven't really seen a 10x Leica, Zeiss, Meopta or Vortex that I've really liked, granted of them only the Zeiss was a $1000+ bino the rest were in the $300-$450 range.  Right now I'm really liking the Burris Sig Series and think I need to check out the ZRs sooner rather than later.

Anyone want to mail me their 10x43 ED2s for a trial?  Loco  ;)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 18:01
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Dangit, I forgot to add, and I don't see where I can edit my post, that I really do like to spend time glassing from the tree stand.  Before kids I spend A LOT of time glassing deer in fields many times a week and will be back to that in another few years I hope. 

So I got warranty/customer service, low light situations, comfort of glassing use, and now a $1500 price cap for my things I'm looking at.

I really appreciate these responses, couple other forums I'm on just for this I've only got 1 reply and they said to just buy the Swaro EL HDs.  Wonder if they're sponsored by them?

Anyway, thanks again, this is really helping me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 18:18
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:



My 10X42 list with your conditions (I noticed price was not one of them)

1. Zeiss Victory FL
2. Leica Ultravid HD
3. Swarovski SLC (I am guessing the HD would be even better, but I haven't seen one)
 
 
4. Meopta Meostar
5. Nikon EDG
6. Vortex Razor
7. ZEN ED
8. Vortex Viper

 
My two cents worth would be there's a considerable difference bewtwee the first 3 and the last 5. I use to have both a Swarovski 10x40 SLC and the compact 8x20 - sold them both because I thought I wanted the 8x32 EL. Never was happy with the eye relief and sold them this spring in favor of a Zeiss Victory 8x42 T* FL.
 
I went thru an exercise this summer looking for a midsize pair of binocs. Tried out 6 different models including the Zen Ray 7x36 EDII - all the while comparing them to the Zeiss and a new pair of 8x20 Ultravids on my front deck. I hated the Zens, sent them and everything else back and wound up keeping the Leupold 8x32 non-HD Gold Rings.
 
But I think you'll be happy if you've got your mind set on a Swarovski.


Edited by tpcollins - January/10/2011 at 18:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 18:35
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Originally posted by muddy muddy wrote:

Dangit, I forgot to add, and I don't see where I can edit my post...
 
Muddy, the forum software is configured so that you can't edit your posts, post pics, etc. until you have 50 posts.
 
Only you can decide which bino is best for you.  It's your eyes and your wallet.
 
$1300 is a good price for "like new" ELs.  If you like the view through them best, I'd say that's the way you should go.  Otherwise, you'll forever second-guess your decision and wish you'd bought the binos you really wanted.  Even though you can get great glass for much less, it's never a bad choice to go with alpha glass if the budget allows.  They will bring a lifetime of viewing satisfaction. 
 
The open hinge design is a "love or hate" design feature, and quite often that has a lot of bearing on recommendations given by both the "love it" and "hate it" camps.  Even those who don't like open hinge binos almost never have anything critical to say about the EL's optics, as the ELs are optically as good as anything.  All optics involve a series of compromises to achieve the design objective, and that includes the alpha glass as well.  Each of the alphas have some subtle aspect to the view that edges out their competitors.  Though another alpha glass may provide marginally better CA suppression, resolution, contrast, light transmission, etc. the EL offers perhaps the largest "sweet spot" compared to its competitors, combined with great resolution, contrast, and light transmission.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 18:49
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It sounds to me like you're pretty set on the EL and would probanbly waste a lot of time second guessing yourself if you let them pass.   

One thing I think you should be asking is, why does your friend want to get rid of his "mint" EL so cheap?

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Originally posted by lucznik lucznik wrote:

It sounds to me like you're pretty set on the EL and would probanbly waste a lot of time second guessing yourself if you let them pass.   

One thing I think you should be asking is, why does your friend want to get rid of his "mint" EL so cheap?



My buddy works for a Scheels All Sports and is the archery department manager.  He wants the Swaro ELs with the HD glass so he's selling his "old" ELs to me for his cost in them and putting it towards the HD glass.  I completely trust him because I could kick his ballz thru his throat if he took me for a loop!  Big Grin

I am not completely set on the EL's now that I've gotten onto a website where there are people who know more about glass than I've ever thought possible.  Most times when I see a post on a hunting site asking about optics 90% of the people say they have a nice set of glass for around $200-$300 and say there's no difference between what they got and the high end stuff...as far as they can tell.  For whatever reason I am picky and anal about my equipment, I learned the hard way that buying cheap isn't the way to go so I want to get something I will be 100% happy with.

The biggest dang problem is that so few stores carry alpha glass.  The have a crap ton of binos ranging from $25-$500, then a few in the $800 range, a couple $1200, and then only Swarovski for high end glass.  I'd love to compare stuff but can't find it.

What is "open hinge" design and why do people not like it?  Any time I've picked up those super long EL's I've never noticed anything uncomfy about them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 21:04
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Never mind on the open hinge vs closed hinge, I prefer open hinge.  Google search rules.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2011 at 21:37
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Originally posted by muddy muddy wrote:

   For whatever reason I am picky and anal about my equipment, I learned the hard way that buying cheap isn't the way to go so I want to get something I will be 100% happy with.

The biggest dang problem is that so few stores carry alpha glass.  The have a crap ton of binos ranging from $25-$500, then a few in the $800 range, a couple $1200, and then only Swarovski for high end glass.  I'd love to compare stuff but can't find it.
 
The first sentence of yours I qouted above pretty much tells me you ought to go ahead with the Swaro from your buddy.  While I think alphas tend to be overpriced on the market those are not.
One thing you willnever have in the back of your mind is "...what if I had not passed on those Swaros dang it!"
 
Yeah the new ones are HD etc...  But there is nothing at all wrong with the EL he wanting to sell you.  Most stores are like what you described.  Cheap sells and they have lots of that.  A few in the middle and maybe one or two top end.  It takes years to get around to looking at much of a variety.
 
To paraphrase that great Irish birding legend, Sancho,  over at one of the birding forums "...they are just tubes with glass in them that make things look bigger.  Just get a pair and go use them".  The EL's will let you do that in confidence.
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Originally posted by tpcollins tpcollins wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:



My 10X42 list with your conditions (I noticed price was not one of them)

1. Zeiss Victory FL
2. Leica Ultravid HD
3. Swarovski SLC (I am guessing the HD would be even better, but I haven't seen one)
 
 
4. Meopta Meostar
5. Nikon EDG
6. Vortex Razor
7. ZEN ED
8. Vortex Viper

 
My two cents worth would be there's a considerable difference bewtwee the first 3 and the last 5.


I would say the difference is pretty slight between them all optically (the viper has a shallow DOF and narrower FOV).  Having had SLCs and Meostars side by side many, many times, everything from image to build quality is really splitting hairs.  In the end, the SLC gets the nod over the Meostar on CA control, and the fit and finish of the diopter adjustment.  I would comfortably hunt with any from my list.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2011 at 11:21
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Had a little free time so I went back down to the store that sells those Burris Signatures.  Took them outside today with the EL HDs as it was snowing, blowing, and quite overcast.  It was a great comparison and for my eyes I was able to finally say I don't need the EL HDs as I could "see thru" the falling snow exactly the same as far as I could tell.  Was checking out houses with both that I couldn't really see with the naked eye thru the snow.  Anyway, it was a great trip down there as it set my mind a little more at ease in what I've already thought previously...then I saw they had Vortex binos and casually asked about the Razor HDs.  The sales guy said they don't stock them BUT he said he and the Vortex rep were good buds so he would call the rep and see if he could get the Razor HDs on loaner for a few days.  Pretty sweet deal as I'll get to check them out and I've read/heard so many great things about Vortex that I'm really excited to do some more side by side comparisons.

Now I gotta do some checking up on the RazorHDs, but that shouldn't take a serious amount of time.

I know now that if I go with the Burris Signatures I will be quite happy and my buddy will let me borrow his old ELs when deer season is done and I can compare them against the Sigs and the RazorHDs all at the same time!

This would be really cool to maybe end up with HD glass for less than what I anticipated.


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Originally posted by muddy muddy wrote:

Originally posted by lucznik lucznik wrote:

It sounds to me like you're pretty set on the EL and would probanbly waste a lot of time second guessing yourself if you let them pass.   

One thing I think you should be asking is, why does your friend want to get rid of his "mint" EL so cheap?



My buddy works for a Scheels All Sports and is the archery department manager.  He wants the Swaro ELs with the HD glass so he's selling his "old" ELs to me for his cost in them and putting it towards the HD glass.  I completely trust him because I could kick his ballz thru his throat if he took me for a loop!  Big Grin

I am not completely set on the EL's now that I've gotten onto a website where there are people who know more about glass than I've ever thought possible.  Most times when I see a post on a hunting site asking about optics 90% of the people say they have a nice set of glass for around $200-$300 and say there's no difference between what they got and the high end stuff...as far as they can tell.  For whatever reason I am picky and anal about my equipment, I learned the hard way that buying cheap isn't the way to go so I want to get something I will be 100% happy with.

The biggest dang problem is that so few stores carry alpha glass.  The have a crap ton of binos ranging from $25-$500, then a few in the $800 range, a couple $1200, and then only Swarovski for high end glass.  I'd love to compare stuff but can't find it.

What is "open hinge" design and why do people not like it?  Any time I've picked up those super long EL's I've never noticed anything uncomfy about them.
I have been watching your post, and I do agree with Luczik, you should just go ahead and get the
Swaro. EL from your buddy.  They are at the very top optically, and will last you the rest of your
life, as Swaro. will service these for much into the future. 
Some of these newer types that are mentioned here are good, but warranty in the future is
a ?   I own the EL and have tried some of these others.  This is an easy and longterm decision
if your budget allows.
 
Jerry
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2011 at 18:01
RifleDude View Drop Down
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Originally posted by muddy muddy wrote:

Had a little free time so I went back down to the store that sells those Burris Signatures.  Took them outside today with the EL HDs as it was snowing, blowing, and quite overcast.  It was a great comparison and for my eyes I was able to finally say I don't need the EL HDs as I could "see thru" the falling snow exactly the same as far as I could tell.  Was checking out houses with both that I couldn't really see with the naked eye thru the snow.  Anyway, it was a great trip down there as it set my mind a little more at ease in what I've already thought previously...then I saw they had Vortex binos and casually asked about the Razor HDs.  The sales guy said they don't stock them BUT he said he and the Vortex rep were good buds so he would call the rep and see if he could get the Razor HDs on loaner for a few days.  Pretty sweet deal as I'll get to check them out and I've read/heard so many great things about Vortex that I'm really excited to do some more side by side comparisons.

Now I gotta do some checking up on the RazorHDs, but that shouldn't take a serious amount of time.

I know now that if I go with the Burris Signatures I will be quite happy and my buddy will let me borrow his old ELs when deer season is done and I can compare them against the Sigs and the RazorHDs all at the same time!

This would be really cool to maybe end up with HD glass for less than what I anticipated.


If you do end up deciding to get the Burris instead of the EL, I would go ahead and get the Vortex Razor or Razor HD instead, since Vortex has a much better warranty and better CS than Burris/ Beretta.  However, if you decide to go with the Razor HD, you are very close to the price of your buddy's EL.  In my earlier post, I incorrectly said the Burris Signature was the same basic binocular as the Vortex Razor.  I was incorrect; instead, it's the same as the Burris Euro Diamond.  If you were looking at an open hinge Burris binocular, it's the Euro Diamond, not the Signature Select.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2011 at 21:43
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Most everyone here knows that I don't really like anything by Swarovski, but given the choice between an EL and anything by Burris, the EL would be the easy choice - no matter what glass the Burris has.

Oh man, that hurt to type that. Y'all can't be holding this against me later...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2011 at 22:31
muddy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by lucznik lucznik wrote:

Most everyone here knows that I don't really like anything by Swarovski, but given the choice between an EL and anything by Burris, the EL would be the easy choice - no matter what glass the Burris has.

Oh man, that hurt to type that. Y'all can't be holding this against me later...


That made me chuckle.
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