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Trijicon Accupoint - Leupold VX-R same glass?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2015 at 23:41
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Optics Apprentice
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My dealer says it's the same glass.Both manufactured by Light Optical in Japan. Is he right ? They doesn't appear to be a lot of difference to me looking through them. Both are very nice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 06:31
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Just because it's manufactured (assuming it is) by L.O.W., doesn't mean it's the same.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 10:00
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The VX-R scopes are made/assembled in the USA.  They are not made by LOW.  They probably get some parts from other sources.

But I do believe that Leupold gets glass from other sources as there is not a good glass manufacturer in the US that can make enough.  But just because they may get glass from the same place as Trijicon (assuming that is true) that does not mean much.  There are different qualities of glass and the optical system design plays a huge role. 

ILya probably knows the answers to this.  Hopefully he will see this post. 

From Leupolds website

Leupold uses foreign sourced components for some parts of Golden Ring products, primarily lenses. This is because at this time, there is no American manufacturer that can supply the quantity of high quality lenses that Leupold needs for its annual Golden Ring Optics production. Leupold’s lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in its state-of -the-art optics lab and then procured from outside vendors who must meet stringent quality standards.

Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the assembly process. Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 11:23
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For argument's sake, even if the VX-R was made by LOW (which I'm pretty sure it isn't, but I think the Accupoint is), the basic premise is still incorrect. I often hear the idea that because Scope A and Scope B are both manufactured by LOW, or because Scope A and Scope B both "have the same glass," then this means they must be the same or have the same image quality. This is false on multiple levels. Light Optical Works, like other optics manufacturers, make optics to specs  and a price target provided by the requesting customer who contracted to have the optic built and who's name is on the product. LOW makes both low end (pun not intended) and high end optics, depending on what the customer spec's out and pays for. For example, LOW manufactures scopes retailing at $200 and at the same time, manufactures scopes for Nightforce. They will build a scope as nice as the customer is willing to pay for.

Additionally, even if a given scope contains "the same glass" as another scope or the glass in one scope comes from the same supplier as another, that fact by itself has very little impact on the comparative optical quality of the scopes being compared. Much more important is the overall optical design -- the lens shapes, number of lens elements and groups, lens spacing and alignment, lens grind precision, types of coatings used, internal scope baffling, and on and on.

In summary, saying one scope is made by the same manufacturer as another is essentially meaningless. Unless both scopes use exactly the same optical design throughout, you cannot make comparative performance generalizations about two scopes based solely on whether they were manufactured in the same facility or use "the same glass."

In this particular case, the Trijicon Accupoint and Leupold VX-R have similar optical performance but they are entirely different designs with very little in common.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 11:29
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I am brand new to optics and know very little about the subject.  In the last couple months I've been doing a lot of reading though.  I may have even developed enough knowledge to understand a fraction of what I've read(or not).

The wheat
I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere I picked up the idea that different companies that contract the same Asian manufacturers to build lenses, will pay different premiums mostly for high quality control and inspection of those individual lenses.  They pay more to "high grade" what comes off the assembly line, so to speak(like diamonds). 

Keeping this in mind, it becomes less important what plant and tooling built the lens.  More important who accepted that particular lens(how it was graded), the type and quality of coating applied, and how that particular lens works within the overall design of the scope it goes into.

The chaff
I also have the idea in my head that some of the "budget" companies like Ncstar(or whoever), buy up things that don't "make grade" for other buyers, so that they can get them cheap and make a price point for their product.  This would explain some of the "predictably unpredictable" nature of less expensive optics.  This "tolerance stacking"(or whatever the proper term is) might line up in a more favorable way on one particular scope, and terrible on the next.   I can't remember where I picked up this idea either.

Again, I am not writing this from a place of knowledge, and my intent is not to educate so much as to fact check my ideas by more experienced people.   I could be wrong about all of it.  I find that the more I learn: I don't get less confused, I just get confused about different thingsWhacko.  



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 11:40
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Was typing when RifleDude Replied. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 11:51
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Welcome to OT, frozentundra!

Given your username and location, am I correct in assuming you're a Packers fan?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 11:56
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Due to recent traumatic events, I am still uncomfortable speaking about that. Ouch
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 12:10
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Haha! I hear ya, buddy!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 12:20
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Originally posted by frozentundra frozentundra wrote:

Due to recent traumatic events, I am still uncomfortable speaking about that. Ouch

Well, it could be worse. 

You could be a Bears fan and have your team hire John (always a bridesmaid, but never a bride) Fox as your new HC. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 12:20
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Oh...and welcome to Optics Talk. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2015 at 20:39
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frozentundra!      Bucky


I like it!!  [ Not the tundra---but the name!! ]   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2015 at 21:56
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Does it remind you of your ex wife
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2015 at 05:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2015 at 17:36
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I have them both (well had...I kept the Trijicons and continue to buy more) and the glass is better on the Trijicon. The eye relief is better on the VXR and it has no tunneling at all. Don't get me wrong I think the VXR is a good scope and for the money it's even better. However, once I owned the Trijicon with the Green Triangle I had to have more. I'm biased to German #1 reticles and the Trijicon is similar. Both the Leupy and the Trijicon are good options. My eyes like the Trijicon better for sure but I wouldn't cry over having the VXR again at all. There isn't a big difference in glass between the two but there is enough to notice. Good luck!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2015 at 18:48
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I've had both and my eyes preferred the VXR (focus and eye relief).

However, Trijicon is a nice scope and deserves your consideration.

Eagle
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