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toughest scopes under a grand?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 12:19
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Who makes bomb proof scopes for under $1000?  Its for a smokeless muzzleloader that has a bad rep as a scope killer.  Facts would be appreciated, opinions are welcome too!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 12:24
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Bushnell 4200s are recoil tested/rated for 10000 rounds of .375 H&H.  And for $1000 you can buy a couple.

Edited by swtucker - February/24/2009 at 12:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 13:09
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What criteria are you looking for? Power range, Objective size, Reticle. These criteria will help us narrow the field immensely.
 
Sightron, Bushnell, Nikon, IOR, Trijicon, Burris, Kahles, etc. All make scopes that can be used for muzzle loaders. Your preference in the criteria is what is important, and that will help us to give you the scope choices in your budget range. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 13:31
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Muzzleloaders, like airguns, can kill a scope. It has to do with the type of recoil, not how much. Any midrange scope should work fine. I've been using an Elite 4200 for years on a ML without incident. Make sure you have good mounts and that the scope is mounted properly. If the bases or rings are misaligned you will also kill it. If it's a traditional ML that has been drilled that could be it. Three rings on a ML is also not a bad idea, especially if you're using the so called "magnum" loads.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 13:33
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F.W.I.W. I'm now using A Trijicon Accupoint 1.25-4x24 and it's PERFECT for muzzleloaders.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 16:46
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Originally posted by jetwrnch jetwrnch wrote:

Muzzleloaders, like airguns, can kill a scope. It has to do with the type of recoil, not how much. Any midrange scope should work fine. I've been using an Elite 4200 for years on a ML without incident. Make sure you have good mounts and that the scope is mounted properly. If the bases or rings are misaligned you will also kill it. If it's a traditional ML that has been drilled that could be it. Three rings on a ML is also not a bad idea, especially if you're using the so called "magnum" loads.


I get a lot of mixed opinions on this point.  I was told this a few times and called around to get a consensus.  Sightron said they could care less and it was fine.  Leupold said theirs were fine, and so did Zeiss.  However some reps at Cabelas say that they heard it from Zeiss and a couple of others that this was true.  I told Leupold and Nikon that I wanted the higher end glass on a ML than they offered in the ML scopes and they said their other offerings were just fine on ML's.  Just the .02 I got from them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 16:51
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I have used an  Elite 4200 on a ML for the past two years with good results. The glass is very good and the Rainguard is a must have for damp conditions we hunt in in Alabama. Not sure what magnification you are considering but you could buy three of the 3X9X40MM scopes from SWFA for less than $1000.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 16:52
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I have been running a Simmons 1x shotgun scope on my muzzleloader for over 10 years and that sucker has taken a lot.  It only cost me $70 and holds a perfect zero and has sufficient glass quality for my needs. 

T/C also has a 1x scope that we have on my dads muzzleloader and it has worked very well too.  It looks like the same scope to me, could be as far as I know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 18:00
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Sorry, forgot the size scope.  Good ol 3-9x40 or simialar.  Its a savage ml, shooting .452 300g bullets in the 2300+ fps range.  Max range in the low 300's yd ball park.  Lots of folks on the savage board hail zeiss(non AO models, zeiss or anyone else's).  Curious what yall thought.  I saw where the 4200 reticle was screwed on somehow.  Zeiss reticles are etched right?  The different erector systems are over my paygrade, I thought I'd ask some pro's.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 18:20
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Reticles on the 4200 are held by adhesive, a steel ring and screws.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 18:24
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I have great faith in Leupold and bushnell when recoil is an issue.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 19:29
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Ditto.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2009 at 22:13
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I too shoot a Savage 10ML smokeless muzzleloader and I can tell you that they are very tough on rifle scopes.  I have already sent a Sightron SII and Kahles CL back for repair.  In particular it seems that the AO feature is vulnerable on them.  Not sure why this would be as I honestly don't feel that the recoil is any different but it is pretty stout shooting 300 grain projectiles at 2450 fps.  I do have a Bushnell 6500 that has been holding up fine for the last year.  Good thing these scopes have lifetime warranties though.
 
 Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 00:34
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Bushnell 4200 is a good choice,have one on a T/C ML and has been a very tough & clear scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 05:28
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Elite 4200 3-9x40 for $250-$300 will work fine. I MUCH prefer the thickness of the FireFly reticle so a 2.5-10x40 would be my Bushnell choice. If you can find the 4200 1.5-6x36 I'd go that route for a smoke pole but it's discontinued. You can find used ones in the $200 range. If you like lower power the 4200 1.25-4x24 may be an option. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 08:23
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I would go for the 4200 with the fire fly ret, it is what i will upgrade to when my banner bites the dust. I to shoot the savage ml50, it is top with a old banner 4x40 seams to be fine its been there for 3 yr. now.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 09:23
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Yeah, I like the Firefly reticle for hunting. I have never used the glowing part of it I just like how much it stands out. It is a little too thick but thats better than too thin.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 12:35
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Originally posted by jetwrnch jetwrnch wrote:

Elite 4200 3-9x40 for $250-$300 will work fine. I MUCH prefer the thickness of the FireFly reticle so a 2.5-10x40 would be my Bushnell choice. If you can find the 4200 1.5-6x36 I'd go that route for a smoke pole but it's discontinued. You can find used ones in the $200 range. If you like lower power the 4200 1.25-4x24 may be an option. 
Excellent advise in the configuration.
 
Any of these should perform nicely.
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 12:39
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( I got a real good old TOUGH scope in my closet that I will let go of for under $1000......)    Light It Up   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 19:34
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or you can get a super sniper, i can promise that it will hold up to anything you can hit it with
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 20:06
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I have a Leupold 2.5 X 8 X 32 on my encore and it has 1500+ shots thru it with no problems.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 20:07
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 I would like to have someone explain the physics behind the notion that a muzzleloader is harder on scopes than a centerfire of comparable power/weight.
 Not suggesting that it isn't true, just never really heard it presented well.
 I can understand  the concept of a spring-piston airguns' reciprocating "snap" shaking things up, but don't see why a muzzleloader would.
 Anyone care to explain the "WHY"?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2009 at 22:37
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8442 New Nikon 1.65-5x36 Omega Muzzleloader Riflescope                                                                       New Nikon 1.65-5x36 Omega Muzzleloader Riflescope
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  • BDC 250
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8443 New Nikon 1.65-5x36 Omega Muzzleloader Riflescope                                                                       New Nikon 1.65-5x36 Omega Muzzleloader Riflescope
  • Realtree APG
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Now for the rest of the story.  Muzzleloaders having significant recoil do well with scopes that have lots of eye relief - that is unless you like the black eye thing consider that factor.  This has 5 inches of eye relief.
Up until the last few months nobody made a balistic reticle in the power range that you really need for hunting right before dark  6x42 scopes have a 7mm exit eye pupil --- similarly at 5x you need at least 35 mm and this has it, and that is where you need to be in those low light moments where bambi is most active.  Scopes with a balistic reticle in the second focal plane only work for known hold over at the maximum power of the scope.  While I cant say that the glass in the Omega is anything to write home about they do kill deer,  At least it kills deer for me every year. Congratualations on having the smokeless set up.  I thought about it but load info was a little hard to find when they first came out.  I have had very good luck with TC muskets.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/25/2009 at 22:40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 07:32
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 I would like to have someone explain the physics behind the notion that a muzzleloader is harder on scopes than a centerfire of comparable power/weight.
 Not suggesting that it isn't true, just never really heard it presented well.
 I can understand  the concept of a spring-piston airguns' reciprocating "snap" shaking things up, but don't see why a muzzleloader would.
 Anyone care to explain the "WHY"?
 
 I also can't understand why the recoil on a muzzleloader would be any different from a centerfire but keep in mind that  shooting 300 grain bullets with 60-75 grains of powder to 2300-2450 fps will produce enough recoil to jar your teeth.  Some of us shoot 1000-2000+ shots per year (mostly at paper) and that tends to be rather hard on rifle scopes.
 
 The Savage 10ML and their custom made counterparts are no ordinary muzzleloaders in that they are capable of using "smokeless" powder.  The same powder used in case loads.  The Savage having a 50 caliber bore is capable of shooting 250-300+ grain projectiles at light speed with long range accuracy.   NO SMOKE, NO CLEANING, FAST SHOOTING.  Recoil might be considered to be somewhat as would be experienced with fast shooting loads in the .458 Lott.   This type of shooting is nothing new and has been around for some time and is safe.  Loads have been pressure tested by the Strain Guage method and usually don't exceed 60,000 psi with 45,000-50,000 psi being the usual.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2009 at 18:48
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I always thought a used Leupold was pretty good for the money.  It still carries its lifetime warranty.  There are plenty of good cheap scopes to choose from since China up'd it's game.
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