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Torn between BDC dials and BDC reticles |
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70snickers
Optics GrassHopper Joined: December/05/2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: December/05/2008 at 19:53 |
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I have a Rem. 700SS 5R .308 and I'm having a hard time selecting a scope. My budget is ~$1000 and it'll be shot at the range mostly with an occasional hunt. My first selection was a Zeiss conquest 4.5-14X44 or 6.5-20X50 rapid Z 1000 which has the holdover BDC etched in the second image plane.
Next I was interested with the BDC dial that Leupold offers for the Mark 4 4.5-14X40 or 6.5-20X50.
Which is the more preferred BDC?
Is there a better option?
Also which is the preferred objective size?
This rifle will be shot from bench.
Thanks for any advice.
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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Welcome to Optics Talk.
I say go with dials.
More accurate, reliable or consistant way of shooting than any BDC reticle for the shooting you described, IMO.
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mike4764
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/16/2008 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Go with the Leupold and ballistics program. Properly zeroed and the correct input to the program and you should be able to hit anything out to 1,000 yards with that rig.
I usually do extensive testing with my load to get a good zero and speed. Run the info through a ballistics program, print out a drop chart, laminate it and mount it to the rifle somewhere. Then a quick look at the card and i'm on.
Hope that helps.
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trigger29
Optics Master Extraordinaire X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ? Joined: September/29/2007 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 4353 |
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I prefer the BDC reticle, but I use it in a hunting situation. For a bench situation, I would use the dials. For me, reticle for speed and hunting. Dials for bench, and pure accuracy. For you, I recommend dials.
Oh and welcome to the OT. Edited by trigger29 - December/05/2008 at 21:18 |
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
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Jon A
Optics Journeyman Joined: March/14/2008 Location: Everett, WA Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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What is the furthest range at which you plan to shoot? |
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70snickers
Optics GrassHopper Joined: December/05/2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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At most 800 yards.
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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I use both. I have the dials on my Black Diamond, and have a BDC reticle in it for when I am hunting. Works great that way. But the dials are more accurate, and I really like them.
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
GEORGE WASHINGTON |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14962 |
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http://www.kentonindustries.com/ with long range hunter Kenton knobs.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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using a combination of reticle hold over and a couple of clicks up or down is both the fastest and most accurate use of either type of system. the biggest downfall of bdc turrets -- is that the turret must be calibrated to the load you are using (leo or kenton has the dials available but better hope your loads match), or if you reload calibrate the load to the dial. dial in also has the disadvantage that the scope must be "tracking" correctly- also if you are shooting past 20 moa and say the tracking is only off 1/8 inch the additive effect makes it less reliable than bdc holdover reticles. . the cone of fire or statistical dispersion of shots past 300 yds, will give a hit range something like 4 inch high and 4 inches low, which is more accurate than the method you will use to find the range. if you sight the 1000 z with the top at 100 yds. you will not have enough "run out" in clicks to push the reticle down, or if it does the reticle will be in the lower part of the optimal light path, a 20 moa rail cures the problem.
in your case -- on a conquest 4x14 on 12.5x with 175 smk, at 2620 the bars are dead on at their numbered ranges with the 800 z reticle. (the gun is a 5r milspec 308) Edited by Dale Clifford - December/06/2008 at 09:38 |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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on the other hand bdc compensation turrets are alot of fun, just be sure you read the numbers, meaning the light setting must be adequate . the real trick to these is grouping cartridges by their ballistic profiles, -- if you take the amt. any load falls by using a ballistic program-- from 200 to 300 yds, and assign the drop as an index (method used by leo in their bas system and by swaro in their on line ballistic program) --- and have a bdc turret made to this spec. it will work for a larger range of applications. an mk4 leo with m2 dial works for green tip 22 on 20 in barrels, 168 gr 308, and 50 gr v-max on 16 inch barrels. this is a degree of versatility ffp scopes do not have
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14962 |
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do you think the plus 30 moa would be too much
Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - December/16/2008 at 23:07 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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that is the 800 reticle with no moa in bases-- I think the 30 moa will be too much.
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14962 |
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I went plus 30 thinking either variable SS or if I can figure out a way a Nightforce or US Optics, possibly Leu Mk 4 depends on the money at hand and political climate in a few months when I get it back.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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I prefer a good scope with a Kenton BDC. And by "good scope", I never mean a Leupold scope.
Kenton makes great BDCs, I own a few and have owned several. Also, Zeiss will install a target turret on a Conquest without them for $50. I had a target elevation turret added to a Conquest and really like it. Don't buy Leupold, others make better scopes for the money, and many make BDC options. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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mike4764
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/16/2008 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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I respectfully disagree. I think Leupold makes one of the best scopes out there. I have shot many times side by side with just about every scope brand all the way out to 3400 yards. They always track perfectly and they are bright and clear. If you check the winners circle Leupold is always up there. There are many excellent scope manufactures I'm not just partial to Leupold, but for the price (6.5x20x50 lrt for well under $700.00) its hard to beat.
This is just my opinion.
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trigger29
Optics Master Extraordinaire X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ? Joined: September/29/2007 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 4353 |
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Ok Dale. You've had your fun, now if you will kindly return my rifle, I'd appeciate it. Oh, and maybe my carpet too. Floor gets kind of cold this time of year.
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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Which winner's circle? Camp Perry? Tactical shoots? I have personally broken 2 Leupolds. I have personally seen many tactical Leupolds go down. My first comment may have been too harsh, I will amend: at military/LE discount, Leupold is a decent deal. At any price above military/LE, a better deal can be found elsewhere. You began a statement about shooting out to 3400 yards but never mention the side-by-side; what else were you shooting? And what exactly were you shooting at 3400 yards, caliber-wise? I've shot Leupold extensively and own Nightforce, USO, Zeiss, Swaro, and will probably never again own Leupold. True, the tracking is pretty good (on the old Mk4 Ultras I shot) but the glass ain't great, and durability is an issue. They do have great Customer Service, and unless your gun is a safe queen, you're gonna use their excellent Customer Service. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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mike4764
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/16/2008 Location: Albany NY Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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I shoot all kinds of disciplines but I was referring to the .50 bmg at 3,400 yards. And I said I shot that far, did not hit anything though. Reliable hits at 2,000 yards were not a problem though. We shoot at Fort Drum they have reactive targets there. I was using a Leupold 6.5x20 lrt. Most of the guys shoot Leupold with no problems. Others shoot Nightforce or S&B and some Super Snipers. Dont get me wrong I'm sure some go down but thats true with every manufacturer. There are wonderful scopes from other manufactures like Nightforce, USO, S&B and so on, but they cost considerably more than $700.00 shipped. I dont think there is any scope more dependable than Leupold in that price range. Would I like to have a Premiere, YES, do I want to pay $3,000, no.
Again this is just my opinion.
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