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Torn between BDC dials and BDC reticles

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2008 at 19:53
70snickers View Drop Down
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I have a Rem. 700SS 5R .308 and I'm having a hard time selecting a scope. My budget is ~$1000 and it'll be shot at the range mostly with an occasional hunt.

My first selection was a Zeiss conquest 4.5-14X44 or 6.5-20X50 rapid Z 1000 which has the holdover BDC etched in the second image plane.
 
Next I was interested with the BDC dial that Leupold offers for the Mark 4 4.5-14X40 or 6.5-20X50.
 
Which is the more preferred BDC?
Is there a better option?
Also which is the preferred objective size?
 
This rifle will be shot from bench.
 
Thanks for any advice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2008 at 20:10
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Welcome to Optics Talk.
 
I say go with dials. 
More accurate, reliable or consistant way of shooting than any BDC reticle for the shooting you described, IMO.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2008 at 21:00
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Go with the Leupold and ballistics program. Properly zeroed and the correct input to the program and you should be able to hit anything out to 1,000 yards with that rig.
I usually do extensive testing with my load to get a good zero and speed. Run the info through a ballistics program, print out a drop chart, laminate it and mount it to the rifle somewhere. Then a quick look at the card and i'm on. 
Hope that helps.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2008 at 21:17
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I prefer the BDC reticle, but I use it in a hunting situation. For a bench situation, I would use the dials. For me, reticle for speed and hunting. Dials for bench, and pure accuracy. For you, I recommend dials.
 
Oh and welcome to the OT.


Edited by trigger29 - December/05/2008 at 21:18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2008 at 21:29
Jon A View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 70snickers 70snickers wrote:

it'll be shot at the range mostly with an occasional hunt.

What is the furthest range at which you plan to shoot?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2008 at 21:44
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At most 800 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2008 at 00:23
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I use both.  I have the dials on my Black Diamond, and have a BDC reticle in it for when I am hunting.  Works great that way.  But the dials are more accurate, and I really like them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2008 at 00:42
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LEU54660 Leupold 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope                                                                           Leupold 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
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SPEED DIAL


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TARGET
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2008 at 09:37
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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using a combination of reticle hold over and a couple of clicks up or down is both the fastest and most accurate use of either type of system. the biggest downfall of bdc turrets -- is that the turret must be calibrated to the load you are using (leo or kenton has the dials available but better hope your loads match), or if you reload calibrate the load to the dial. dial in also has the disadvantage that the scope must be "tracking" correctly- also if you are shooting past 20 moa and say the tracking is only off 1/8 inch the additive effect makes it less reliable than bdc holdover reticles. . the cone of fire or statistical dispersion of shots past 300 yds, will give a hit range something like 4 inch high and 4 inches low, which is more accurate than the method you will use to find the range.

if you sight the 1000 z with the top at 100 yds. you will not have enough "run out" in clicks to push the reticle down,  or if it does the reticle will be in the lower part of the optimal light path, a 20 moa rail cures the problem.
in your case -- on a conquest 4x14 on 12.5x with 175 smk, at 2620 the bars are dead on at their numbered ranges with the 800 z reticle. (the gun is a 5r milspec 308)


Edited by Dale Clifford - December/06/2008 at 09:38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2008 at 09:50
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on the other hand bdc compensation turrets are alot of fun, just be sure you read the numbers, meaning the light setting must be adequate . the real trick to these is grouping cartridges by their ballistic profiles, -- if you take the amt. any load falls by using a ballistic program-- from 200 to 300 yds, and assign the drop as an index (method used by leo in their bas system and by swaro in their on line ballistic program) --- and have a bdc turret made to this spec. it will work for a larger range of applications. an mk4 leo with m2 dial works for green tip 22 on 20 in barrels, 168 gr 308, and 50 gr v-max on 16 inch barrels. this is a degree of versatility ffp scopes do not have
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2008 at 17:01
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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do you think the plus 30 moa would be too much

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - December/16/2008 at 23:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2008 at 20:27
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that is the 800 reticle with no moa in bases-- I think the 30 moa will be too much.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/09/2008 at 19:09
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I went plus 30 thinking either variable SS or if I can figure out a way a Nightforce or US Optics, possibly Leu Mk 4 depends on the money at hand and political climate in a few months when I get it back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/09/2008 at 19:50
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I prefer a good scope with a Kenton BDC. And by "good scope", I never mean a Leupold scope.

Kenton makes great BDCs, I own a few and have owned several.

Also, Zeiss will install a target turret on a Conquest without them for $50.  I had a target elevation turret added to a Conquest and really like it.


Don't buy Leupold, others make better scopes for the money, and many make BDC options.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/09/2008 at 22:07
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I respectfully disagree. I think Leupold makes one of the best scopes out there. I have shot many times side by side with just about every scope brand all the way out to 3400 yards. They always track perfectly and they are bright and clear. If you check the winners circle Leupold is always up there. There are many excellent scope manufactures I'm not just partial to Leupold, but for the price (6.5x20x50 lrt for well under $700.00) its hard to beat.
This is just my opinion.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2008 at 06:44
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

 
Ok Dale. You've had your fun, now if you will kindly return my rifle, I'd appeciate it. Oh, and maybe my carpet too. Floor gets kind of cold this time of year.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2008 at 08:28
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Originally posted by mike4764 mike4764 wrote:

I respectfully disagree. I think Leupold makes one of the best scopes out there. I have shot many times side by side with just about every scope brand all the way out to 3400 yards. They always track perfectly and they are bright and clear. If you check the winners circle Leupold is always up there. There are many excellent scope manufactures I'm not just partial to Leupold, but for the price (6.5x20x50 lrt for well under $700.00) its hard to beat.
This is just my opinion.



Which winner's circle?  Camp Perry? Tactical shoots?

I have personally broken 2 Leupolds.  I have personally seen many tactical Leupolds go down.

My first comment may have been too harsh, I will amend: at military/LE discount, Leupold is a decent deal.  At any price above military/LE, a better deal can be found elsewhere.

You began a statement about shooting out to 3400 yards but never mention the side-by-side; what else were you shooting?  And what exactly were you shooting at 3400 yards, caliber-wise?

I've shot Leupold extensively and own Nightforce, USO, Zeiss, Swaro, and will probably never again own Leupold.  True, the tracking is pretty good (on the old Mk4 Ultras I shot) but the glass ain't great, and durability is an issue.

They do have great Customer Service, and unless your gun is a safe queen, you're gonna use their excellent Customer Service.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2008 at 12:35
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I shoot all kinds of disciplines but I was referring to the .50 bmg at 3,400 yards. And I said I shot that far, did not hit anything though.Big Smile Reliable hits at 2,000 yards were not a problem though. We shoot at Fort Drum they have reactive targets there. I was using a Leupold 6.5x20 lrt. Most of the guys shoot Leupold with no problems.  Others shoot Nightforce or S&B and some Super Snipers. Dont get me wrong I'm sure some go down but thats true with every manufacturer. There are wonderful scopes from other manufactures like Nightforce, USO, S&B and so on, but they cost considerably more than $700.00 shipped. I dont think there is any scope more dependable than Leupold in that price range. Would I like to have a Premiere, YES, do I want to pay $3,000, no. 
Again this is just my opinion.
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