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BUYING HUNTING BINOCULARS |
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John Barsness 
Optics Optimist 
Joined: January/27/2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 784 |
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 Topic: BUYING HUNTING BINOCULARSPosted: September/11/2009 at 15:23 |
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Would also like to comment that I am not totally sure that all the alphas are tougher than lesser-priced binoculars. This is based on some personal experience as well as a lot of contact with sporting goods dealers, North American guides and African professional hunters. Right now my personal choices as the very best buys are the top Zen Rays and Hawkes in the sub-$500 class, and the Meopta Meostars in the sub-$1000 class. I have used the Zen Rays and Hawkes a lot lately (and the Zen Rays recently for 10 days in Alaska) and have had no problems, but have used a 10x42 Meostar for several years on three continents, and they are about as tough as binoculars get. But I have used a bunch of supposedly sub-alpha binoculars from other companies such as Alpen, Bushnell, Leupold, Nikon, Pentax, Weaver, etc. as well. And in a year or two the market will change.
One thing that I didn't mention in the article is that some binoculars simply do not mesh well with some users. One of my favorites is a Nikon Premier 8x32 that I've used hard for a number of years now. A friend bought one because of my recommendation, and for some reason they simply did not suit his eyes at all and he had to return them. In fact I believe he tried two, thinking the first must have been defective.
We are all different in terms of binocular fit, color perception and the "feel" of binoculars, so the ideal situation is to find a store that stocks a lot of binoculars and hold and look through them all. That is often impossible, however, so the next best thing is to order a binocular in your price range from a repurable company such as SWFA that is willing to take returns and see if it works.
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John Barsness
Optics Optimist
Joined: January/27/2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 784 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 15:05 |
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The only thing I know for sure is that Meopta makes most of the lenses for the Zeiss Conquest riflescopes. Zeiss makes the erector lenses and tube, Meopta makes the rest of the lenses and scope tube, adjustment parts, etc. Or at least that is what the people told me when I inquired.
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koshkin
Optics Jedi Knight
Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 6306 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 13:39 |
"Alpha" usually refers to Swarovski, Zeiss and Leica. As for Meopta making glass for Swarovski, I am not aware of that, although I have heard that mentioned in relation to Swaro spotters. ILya
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www.kitchentabletopics.com
www.opticsthoughts.com Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud |
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pahuntnut
Optics Apprentice 
Joined: March/20/2008 Location: Pa Usa Online Status: Offline Posts: 65 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 13:22 |
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Well just want to say thanks to all of you for you comments and your patience with me. Your right when you summized I was experiencing decision lock.
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ccoker
Optics Journeyman 
Joined: February/13/2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 697 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 13:13 |
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why wouldn't the Meopta count as "alpha" ?
price tag? don't they make the glass for Swarovski ? |
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koshkin
Optics Jedi Knight
Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 6306 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 12:55 |
I do not think I made any mentino on the brands of the binoculars in question. As a general rule, I would suggest you first figure out which configuration you want and then go on to determine the brand/make. As far as what I recommend these days (as John pointed out, the marketplace changes quickly and my recommendations change with it), you get the most for your money with a 8x42, since there are a lot of options there. With this configuration I have two recommendations: -under $500: Hawke Frontier ED 8x43 -over $500: Vortex Razor 8x42 or 8.5x50 With 7x42, there are not nearly as many choices and the best one for the money is Meopta Meostar. Getting a more expensive binocular than the three I mention might get you marginally better performance, but it is a difference that you have to look for and that makes no practical difference I can think of. ILya
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www.kitchentabletopics.com
www.opticsthoughts.com Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud |
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Klamath
Optics Journeyman
Joined: May/20/2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 343 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 12:46 |
It gets down to this. You probably "need" an alpha if you are hunting in the remote areas a lot, use your equipment hard, or like some guys I know just are hard on stuff, or if you use binoculars fore far more than maybe 45 days or so a year in actual hunting and scouting.
You can get along just fine with less than alpha if your equipment typically does not get the stuffing knocked out of it. You can take a ZEN ED or a Meopta and if you can not see it with those, you won't see it with an alpha either. The optical quality is so darned close that you would have a hard to impossible time telling what was what with just a bunch of unmarked binoculars.
I like and use with confidence the ZEN ED and its near sibling the Promaster ELX ED. I can't imagine a Meopta being unable to satisfy hard use, hard knocks at alpha level toughness at less than half of the alpha level price. I am seriously thinking about a 7x42 Meostar just to have one to try out. My Promaster has survived several purposely applied wet it freeze, and thaw episodes.
The comments about not obsessing are spot on the money. I'd call and talk to Chris here at SWFA and make some arrangements to try the ZEN and the Meostar. The image of either is plenty good enough. When you have them in hand, you can make your own decisions on what about which one rings the sales receipt.
FrankD sold Zeiss FL and Swarovski EL when he saw the ZEN etc. His point at the time was that he could not justify the cost of those when the ZEN was so good. He apparently was in a temporary $$pinch right then as well. He has repurchased some Zeiss FL. But guys like Frank go through lots of glass. I'm sort of glad he does because his posts about what he goes through are pretty good. Edited by Klamath - September/11/2009 at 12:51 |
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Steve
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supertool73
Optics Master Extraordinaire 
Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Location: Utah Online Status: Offline Posts: 4591 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 12:13 |
It wouldn't make sense to sell the alpha class bino's for something less. Even if all you gain is a 2 or 3% increase in optical quality for that extra $800 it is still an increase and at that point you already own them and have paid for them. I really think it more comes down to buying in the first place. Some are willing to pay it and can afford to do it, others that are cheapo's like me can not bring themselves to do it. When I bought my Meopta bino's I had $1500 in cabelas points saved up to buy a pair. I was probably going to buy a Leica or Swaro but once I compared them to the Meopta there was no way in hell I could justify paying $900 more for the Leica or Swaros. I got my Meopta's for $600 in points after a cabelas rebate, and every time I look through them I am just as pleased as can be. Then a few weeks later we turned around and bought my dad a pair of the Meoptas as well and had two pair for cheaper than one of the others. Some can justify it and other just cannot. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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supertool73
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Location: Utah Online Status: Offline Posts: 4591 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 12:04 |
True that, it always makes me smile when I see that some people just buy pair after pair after pair of binos every year just trying to one up themselves over and over again. On the other hand though, I quite enjoy reading the reviews and knowledge that those people gain from doing that. My pocket book is just glad it is them and not me.  |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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pahuntnut
Optics Apprentice
Joined: March/20/2008 Location: Pa Usa Online Status: Offline Posts: 65 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 11:59 |
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Yes I know the dramatic increase in price after $500 is not proportional to optical quality. However, I asked in another post if anyone ever sold their alpha's and just went with a less expensive bin and never really got an answer. Koshkin seemed to indicate the people in his test picked the alpha's and I was curious. i dont own any alpha glass and have no personal agenda. Not being as experienced as most on this forum when it comes to optics, It is hard for me to understand how a $400 bin can come very close to a $2000 bin. On another forum a person said they were an optometrist and said the human eye can only do so much? So no matter how they improve optics we will not really be able to appreciate it because we have limitations.
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John Barsness
Optics Optimist
Joined: January/27/2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 784 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 10:16 |
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I have spent a lot of time in the field behind such sub-$500 glasses as the Alpen Apex, Bushnell Legend, Swift Audubon, Weaver Grand Slam and others to know that there isn't much given up there either. One of the stories I've told before is about how my wife Eileen and I and her brother went to Yellowstone Park a couple of years ago to look at wildlife in spring. We took three binoculars: a Leica Duovid 8+12x40, a Zeiss FL 8x42 and a Leupold Cascade 10x42 porro-prism. We saw a bunch of animals, inclouding elk and wolves, but the ones that were hard to spot were bighorn sheep, often at very long distances. There wasn't any sheep we could see through the alpha glass that couldn't be seen--and almost as well--with the sub-$300 Leupold.
I would also add that the top Zen Ray and Hawke binoculars are incredible buys for under $500. They will only drive the price of fine optics down, as other companies try to compete.
One thing that I must re-emphasize from the article that if you buy a binocular based on any test (even one made last week) is that the test is already obsolete. The changes in modern optics come so fast these days that you might as well just pick one, instead of constantly trying to figure out what is best at the moment, because they all improve slightly just about every year. Plus, this has been going on long enough that even many $500 binoculars from 5 or more years ago are just fine. Trying to micro-analyze every binocular on the market will either lead to buying nothing (which does you no good in the field) or somehow imagining that you're missing out after finally making a choice.
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JGRaider
Optics Journeyman
Joined: February/06/2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 352 |
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Posted: September/11/2009 at 09:36 |
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I'm sure you know this already pahuntnut, but a big increase in price doesn't get you a proportional increase in optics these days. For instance you won't see something through a Zeiss FL that I can't see through my Bushnell Elite, Zen Ray, or a Razor, Meopta, etc. That being said I've owned and used a Leica Trinovid 10x42 for the past dozen years or so and love it, but I would really see no need to spend that kind of money today when there are so many great choices @ $750 or less.
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