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SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread (2009) |
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Chris Farris 
TEAM SWFA - Admin 
swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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 Topic: SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread (2009)Posted: April/05/2009 at 14:42 |
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The scale below was formed by SWFA sales staff, customer service, pro-staff and owners using personal experience, customer input and facts supplied by the manufacturers. The ranking system is based on the following criteria.
51% Optical Quality - How bright and clear the scope is. 15% Specifications - Field of view, eye relief, weight, adjustment travel, etc. 15% Durability - How do they with stand the test of time. 12% Special Features & Options - Proprietary items (reticles, design, turrets), Zoom ratio. 7% Warranty & Customer Service - How good are they. 0%
In order to maintain the scale's simplicity we are not listing every single manufacture and only major manufactures will have several of their brands listed. This scale also does not have discontinued brands or products like the old U.S.A. made Redfields, Japan Tasco or Japan Simmons Aetec. This scale is heavily weighted toward HUNTING as being the application the scope will be used for.
This scale will be kept current with changes that the manufacturers are making that affect their rank. Many of the lower end companies have been bought and sold a lot recently and while the names have stayed the same......the product has not.
2009 Riflescope Rating Scale
Leica ER, Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Victory Kahles C - CL & CSX, Premier Reticle, Schmidt & Bender
Bushnell Elite 6500, Leupold VX-7, Nightforce NXS, IOR Valdada, Vortex Razor
Bushnell Elite 4200, Leupold VX-3, Nikon Monarch & Monarch X, Zeiss Conquest Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L, Meopta, Nikon Monarch Gold & Titanium, Sightron SIII & S2 Big Sky, Vortex Viper
Burris Black Diamond Signature Select XTR & Euro Diamond, Pentax Lightseeker, Trijicon Accupoint, Weaver Grand Slam
Bushnell Elite 3200, Leupold VX-II, Millet Tactical/Buck Gold, Nikko Stirling, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Vortex Crossfire & Diamondback, Super Sniper Fixed
Burris Fullfield II & Timberline, Leupold Rifleman & VX-I, Leatherwood, Mueller, Nikon ProStaff, Simmons Barska, Sightmark, Swift, Truglo
BSA, ATN, Leapers, NcStar Edited by Chris Farris - April/05/2009 at 14:51 |
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mike650
Optics God
Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14480 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 15:15 |
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OK, I'm ready!!
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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Boom Stick
Optics GrassHopper 
Joined: August/29/2007 Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 16:55 |
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 Sooooooooo without the value comparison the Sightron big sky and SIII are still behind the monarch and the 4200? hmmm...... still don't get it..... someone needs to explain this to me.
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blacktails
Optics Apprentice
Joined: November/18/2008 Location: Washington Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 17:10 |
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Glad to see the new ratings scale come out. Looks good. Just from what I've been reading about the Sightron Big Sky scopes, I would have guessed that they would have come out at least even with both the Bushnell 4200's and the Nikon Monarch, especially now that "best bang for the buck" is not being considered. The 4200 is a nice scope and will probably end up on my secondary rifle, and I may end up also letting my Conquest go for something comparable but smaller, just because it is a bit too big for my liking for the .260 deer rifle I'm going to have built.
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257WM_CDL-SF
Optics Apprentice
Joined: March/18/2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 17:17 |
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yes my thoughts also why i picked the big sky over 4200
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Roy Finn
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Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 17:20 |
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FWIW I think there should be more emphasis on durability than 15%. All the features and wonderful optical attributes are useless if the scope does not hold up to recoil and knocks in the field. Not sure how that could be evaluated on new models and companies for the scope scale.
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257WM_CDL-SF
Optics Apprentice
Joined: March/18/2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 17:27 |
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i had read several posts the optics of the big sky were better than 4200 but ranks below it
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin
swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 17:49 |
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We took out the numbering system too so that we can put some scopes in between categories.
We also weighted the optics as the most important factor after listening to everyones input in the 2008 thread.
Sightron is lacking in the Durability category and features category and many people think they are not optically equivalent to the scopes in the class above them.
This is a continuous work in progress and not set in stone, so let's continue to debate, critique it, and update it.
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mike650
Optics God
Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14480 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 17:53 |
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Since value (best bang for buck) is gone and customer service remains
wouldn't the Swaro PH and possibly the AH move up one notch; optically
they appear to be equal to the Kahles C series too.
Edited by mike650 - April/05/2009 at 17:58 |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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bricat
Optics Master 
Joined: April/24/2007 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 17:53 |
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So, what makes the Bushnell 6500 better than the 4200, I thought it had the same glass? I thought the only difference was 30mm tube vs. 1 inch and also the 6x magnification
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin
swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 18:05 |
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Kahles might be coming down due to their lack of presence in the U.S., their service is just about none existent. Kahles does hold a slight edge optically over the PH and A line and they did out feature them with MultiZero and their CSX technology.
We can combine Special Features with Specifications to help simplify things and re-weight the scale.
51% Optical Quality - How bright and clear the scope is. 20% Specifications & Special Features - Field of view, eye relief, weight, adjustment travel, proprietary reticles and turret designs, Erector ration (zoom) 20% Durability - How do they with stand the test of time. 9% Warranty & Customer Service - How good are they. |
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mike650
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 18:09 |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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swtucker
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 18:13 |
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Are Vortex Razor's new scopes?
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire 
Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 18:18 |
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I've heard both ways regarding Sightron's optical quality, some slightly above and some slightly below the 4200 Bushnell. Obviously pretty close, and obviosly pretty good glass in each.
However, I've heard of several mechanical failures in Sightron's line, out of proportion to what I imagine is a far greater number of 4200 units afield. (Maybe I'm incorrect in assuming that Bushnell outsells them, Chris may offer his insight to that.)
I've personally seen astonishing examples of the 4200s ability to handle GROSS abuse.
I must tentatively agree with that ranking, based on admittedly limited knowledge...
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Urimaginaryfrnd
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 18:22 |
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According to John Barness the Trijicon Accupoint glass is made by Light Optical Japan same place Nightforce glass is made. I really think that the glass combined with the illuminated reticle places it at the level of the Bushnell 6500. This is one I think is way under rated but the new TR23 will tell the tale. Eaven if it was at the level of the 4200 that might be realistic but hunting being the weighted area I think the illuminated reticle of the Trijicon or the B&C & varmit reticles of the Leu VX3 make those scopes way more deadly that a duplex 4200. From the Accupoints I have seen in the last several years I think the glass has improved and the 2.5-10 scope I find vastly preferable to the 3-9 version even though I typiclly dont like a larger objective.
Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - April/05/2009 at 18:26 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Al Nyhus
Optics Apprentice
Joined: March/08/2009 Status: Offline Points: 127 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 18:48 |
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Let me get this right: of those people listed that made up this rating chart.......durablity is only a 15% consideration to them?
If that's true, I'm completely out of step.......
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John Barsness
Optics Optimist
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 18:51 |
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I am pretty much going to stay out of this, except to point out that even though a lot of different optics are made in the same factories that doesn't mean they are all the same.
The same factory can make different lenses for different companies, and glass isn't the only factor in optical quality. The entire system (including interior baffling or matting) will make a difference, so "same factory" doesn't mean anything absolute.
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Shenko
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 18:52 |
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Giving more weight to durability would be great, in my opinion.
The part that surprised me was:
Bushnell Elite 3200, Leupold VX-II, Millet Tactical/Buck Gold, Nikko Stirling, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Vortex Crossfire & Diamondback, Super Sniper Fixed
on the same line.
Are you really rating the SI and Crossfire equal to the SII and Diamondback?
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tahqua
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Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9016 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 19:08 |
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Still the best bench mark I've seen put together for us hunters in the optics crowd.
I have a Leapers and they are right where they belong. Cost effective for a day light scope, that's it. Considering how the Kahles have always been listed, we can't get new 1.5-6x42's on this side of the pond. |
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Monster
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Joined: December/16/2008 Location: So. Cal Status: Offline Points: 2031 |
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Posted: April/05/2009 at 19:41 |
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Tough list to put together. From what I read and what I know the Nikko Sterling needs to be moved down. They are not in the same class as the SS, Nikon Buckmaster, 3200, etc.
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"Get Busy Livin' or get busy dyin'" -Red (Shawshank Redemption)
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mike650 wrote: