10mm FBI study

Originally posted by cheaptrick That is hilarious.   What's with the .40?? A Kaboom?

After further review, DOH, I think you are right on that one, too, CT. I guess they can hurt you on both ends
Hopefully we're back on track with the original satire

Originally posted by tahqua Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd In 1979 FBI Instructor John Walters taught me to shoot two to the body one to the head Also known as the Mozambique Drill and popularized by the late Jeff Cooper. It was also used in Collateral with Tom Cruise.

In 1979 FBI Instructor John Walters taught me to shoot two to the body one to the head and to be prepared to engage multiple adversaries and to richochet a bullet along a hard surface -wall to strike a perp hiding behind the corner as the bullet strikes the wall and travels along it a few inches off the wall if you shoot a couple of feet from the corner of the wall. (same same with the ground on hard surfaces) I have to conclude that the other FBI firearms instructors were teaching the same thing so why they have had some of the issues they have had does not necessarily reflect how they were trained.  I do think that the proven bullets that have shown they work are 44, 45 pistols, and .30 cal and larger. rifles. There is a memorable quote by an old San Antonio police officer "the 41mag was the best rat killing cartridge we ever had".  The bottom line is that most bullets that work well overpenetrate and raise the risk of law suits which we all know is the only thing municipalities fear.

Take a look at this and I think you will reevaluate a handgun round.  I realize with a .44 mag there is a weee bit of difference that with a .40.  But it makes a .308 sound like a pretty good idea ore even better yet a 45-70.

This is from Ignatius Piazza's Blog.  He is the founder of Front Sight.

Pay close attention to the following facts:

1. Range was 20 feet.

2. Three officers involved.

3. One adversary, 18 years old.

4. Officers used M4s with 55 grain and 75 grain .223 ammunition and Glock 22’s with Speer 180 grain Gold Dot ammunition.

5. Adversary used .45 ACP handgun.

6. Trace amounts of marijuana in adversary’s system.

7. 107 rounds fired by two officers with 17 rounds striking adversary (16% hit ratio).

8. Of the 17 hits, 11 created exit wounds.

9. NO HEAD SHOT DELIVERED by officers at range of 20 feet from either their rifles or handguns.

10. Adversary fired 26 rounds and reloaded magazine from a box of loose ammunition.

11. Incident lasted approximately 3.5 minutes.

12. When adversary was no longer able to return fire, officers still had to “fight” to get him handcuffed.

13. Interesting tattoos on very dedicated adversary.

14. I would add under the FBI’s Lessons Learned Section that when you do not inflict immediate, incapacitating damage to your adversary, you often create a “Superman Effect” in your adversary from the normal physiologic response to significant, but non-life threatening injury.

I experienced this myself when I broke both arms in an all terrain vehicle accident 20 years ago. I distinctly remember looking at both wrists, twisted and broken, but remarkably felt NO PAIN. I was so surprised by the lack of pain that I actually shook the wrists a bit in disbelief! I then crossed my arms, holding the wrists close to my body for support, and JOGGED back toward camp for several minutes before the pain began and then quickly intensified to the point where any movement of my body was extremely painful. It is during this brief but significant period of NO PAIN that your adversary can fight you like a “Superman” even though you may be continuing to deliver hits to his body.

The answer to such a dangerous opponent is the cranio-ocular shot. You must have the mindset and ability to slow down and deliver a dedicated shot to the area between your opponent’s eyebrows and moustache to end the fight. If you are so inclined, Front Sight can train and ingrain you to do so.

WARNING this is very graphic It has autopsy photos of the perp.

http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/wp-content/uploads/officer.pdf


Edited by supertool73 - August/11/2008 at 12:04

Wes, I was thinking the same thing.  If I can't put them down with my 23, I have a .308 that will work just fine.   LOL 

.357Sig                  10mm                 .40 S&W