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To Build or to buy a rifle...6xc

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2016 at 09:46
8shots View Drop Down
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Old age is creeping up on me..Yes, I am half Ed's age so that puts me in the early 60's. My current rifle, a 6mm Rem AI, built on a Rem action with a 26 inch heavy barrel is becoming a tad difficult to shoot offhand, or resting of poor supports such as a slanted rock etc. I need to do this for our type of competitions.

Now I have been thinking to move to a lesser recoil rifle. The 6mm XC seems to fit this spec. Then I need a lighter rifle. I was thinking about a lighter barrel and stock.

Browning has recently chambered for the 6XC and seems to be super accurate.

So do I build a custom or buy off the shelf?

What specs can the boffins recommend for a custom build? The range would mostly be 100 yds out to 390 yds. A flat shooter is a must.

Shoot away please!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2016 at 13:04
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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Never used the Browning, so I have no idea on how to comment on that.
A custom rig allows you to tailor everything to your desires, but at a higher cost.
I would also expect a custom rig to have sustainable accuracy that is better than the Browning, but...How much accuracy will you demand out of this new rifle???
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Old age is creeping up on me..Yes, I am half Ed's age so that puts me in the early 60's. My current rifle, a 6mm Rem AI, built on a Rem action with a 26 inch heavy barrel is becoming a tad difficult to shoot offhand, or resting of poor supports such as a slanted rock etc. I need to do this for our type of competitions.

Now I have been thinking to move to a lesser recoil rifle. The 6mm XC seems to fit this spec. Then I need a lighter rifle. I was thinking about a lighter barrel and stock.

Browning has recently chambered for the 6XC and seems to be super accurate.

So do I build a custom or buy off the shelf?

What specs can the boffins recommend for a custom build? The range would mostly be 100 yds out to 390 yds. A flat shooter is a must.

Shoot away please!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2016 at 16:05
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My only Browning was a .375 H&H and it was miserably inaccurate.
6.5 Creedmore  has been the big push here  or you could select  .243 or 260 Rem or 7mm-08 would be the ones I would look at because ammo and brass should be able to be had most of the time. Today if its anything out of the norm - you best be sure you have a good supply of brass to be able to make it run, It has been really f up here on availability of some brass.   As far as factory rifles I have been very satisfied with the accuracy of Tikka rifles and Savage rifles.  Remingtons can be made to shoot but it tends to take a lot of gunsmith work to true the action etc.   White Oak Armory produces match quality AR uppers if that is a possible for you.   I'm just not a benchrest guy so 6mm stuff is not something I ever deal with I'm either at .223  or at .30 cal cartridges.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 01:33
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The level of accuracy has to be 1/2 MOA or better.

We have one of our top competitors who has recently bought the Browning 6XC and he is winning a lot of competitions with it. Maybe he got lucky?

We do not shoot bench rest, but field target shooting using natural positions as presented by the terrain. So it can be anything from a flimsy tree branch shaking in the wind, a log, a stone and sometimes off hand. You therefore need the strength to hold your rifle in awkward positions and to handle the recoil.

The other issue is that you are not allowed to range the target, so a flat shooter is a must. All the top shooters are pushing speeds of 3300 ft/sec or so. My 6mm AI is going at 3850ft/sec and my scores have improved dramatically from the days of 2900ft/sec

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 05:11
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Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:


The level of accuracy has to be 1/2 MOA or better.



Build.

That's a tough standard to expect out of a factory rifle. You might get that, but it's a gamble.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 05:15
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Build it!Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 08:38
8shots View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ernie Bishop Ernie Bishop wrote:

Build it!Big Grin

That would be my bet too. Our currency has taken a nose dive so it is not going to be cheap. Two years ago I bought Sierra Blitzking 70gr for R3, last year for R5 and last week for R8,50 !!! My earnings has done the same !!!

In April we have the Huntex Expo, almost like your Shotshow, so I will be able to do a lot of research for parts then.

My big question is, Can a light rifle give the kind of speed and accuracy I am looking for?



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 09:19
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Light barrels can still be accurate. But they heat up quicker and then lose accuracy once hot
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 09:46
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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Can you get a Proof Research carbon wrapped barrel there?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 10:46
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I was going to say buy the Browning, until you said 1/2 MOA, now I'm with Ted and Ernie; build it.

Barrels don't know if they're thin or heavy until they get hot, but thin barrels heat up fast. Ernie has an idea with a carbon fiber wrapped barrel, it would help control the heat and keep the weight down.

If I remember correctly you only take 10-12 shots in a stage in your matches with a time limit. so you probably want your build goal to have a barrel that will maintain that 1/2 MOA of your maximum number of rounds fired in a stage with the average time limit.
You might want to consider a fluted barrel to help with heat control and keep a rigid barrel.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 17:33
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I have a custom 6XC RIFLE in progress.  Using a Heavy Sendero taper Proof Research 7.5T carbon wrapped barrel on a trued LH Remmy Short Action.  Custom wood stock is the thing that is holding me up.  Should be done in a month or two though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 18:27
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Ernie what the heck does LH mean???

Wrong side?




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 18:40
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Ernie what the heck does LH mean???

Wrong side?

Yep, I'm left-handed
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2016 at 19:11
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😎👍 you my friend are a shooter!

I'm just a hunter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2016 at 01:04
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Wouter a friend of mine has a Blaser 6xc, cases and dies are not a issue. I don't think our propellants are best suited to the 6xc. With a 105 Lapua Scenar he only got up to 2940 fps before showing major signs of pressure, his current load shots at 2854 fps. The Blaser's barrel is only 24 inches, you definitely need to build and go for a longer barrel to get the most out of it. 6xc is super accurate but I don't think it's as flat shooting as your 6mm up to 400m. It's desingned to work with heavier bullets with a 1/8 twist, and case capacity will be an issue if you try the lighter bullets to get them up to 3800. Look at the 6.5 Creedmoor as well. High bc bullets and much better availability of bullets than the 6mm here by us. 123 at 2900 to 3000 fps. A 108 grain bullet in 6.5 will go even faster.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2016 at 02:54
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Thanks for all the input. Going into my brainbox. The carbon wrapped barrel sounds interesting. I am not sure if we have something like that here. Will investigate.

Glock, I will also look at the other calibres.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2016 at 07:33
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

😎👍 you my friend are a shooter!

I'm just a hunter.

Thanks. 
I have been blessed with a lot of opportunities.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2016 at 13:06
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Originally posted by Ernie Bishop Ernie Bishop wrote:

Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Ernie what the heck does LH mean???

Wrong side?

Yep, I'm left-handed
DAMN!!! I was gonna ask if you were selling it!  Lefties! Head Bang
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2016 at 15:52
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Laugh
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2016 at 16:25
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Best of luck on your endeavor, Wouter. 

Reppin' lefties too.....Big Grin 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2016 at 01:14
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Some time ago I read a piece on fluting of barrels. The gist of it was that a for any given size an unfluted barrel is more repeatable in a string of shots (read barrel heating) then a fluted barrel. (An unfluted barrel is stiffer than a fluted barrel of the same weight)

So a 20mm barrel unfluted is better then a 20mm fluted barrel.

A same weight unfluted barrel is worse in stiffness than a same weight fluted barrel.





Edited by 8shots - March/17/2016 at 03:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2016 at 06:41
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I wouldn't flute a barrel for a comp rig
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2016 at 09:51
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Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Some time ago I read a piece on fluting of barrels. The gist of it was that a for any given size an unfluted barrel is more repeatable in a string of shots (read barrel heating) then a fluted barrel. (An unfluted barrel is stiffer than a fluted barrel of the same weight)

So a 20mm barrel unfluted is better then a 20mm fluted barrel.

A same weight unfluted barrel is worse in stiffness than a same weight fluted barrel.





Of the same diameter yes, but not of the same weight.  (at least the weight before you flute it)  One of the main purposes of fluting is because you can use a larger diameter barrel and because of the flutes it weighs the same as a smaller diameter barrel.   So to start with it will be heavier and larger, then after you flute it it will be the same weight as the lighter barrel.  So the fluted barrel will be stiffer because it is a larger diameter.  Your fluted could be a 25mm barrel and weigh the same as a 20mm barrel and it will be stiffer because it is 25mm.  Then you get the added benefits of more surface area for cooling. 

Length plays a huge role in stiffness as well.  The shorter the barrel is, the stiffer it is.  But obviously at the cost of velocity.  

Lilja did a good write up of barrel stiffness on their website.  http://riflebarrels.com/a-look-at-the-rigidity-of-benchrest-barrels

I had a Lilja .308 barrel.  It was the heaviest barrel they make and it was fluted and 25" long.  That thing was insane accurate.  I could literally make 5 shot one hole groups over and over and over again with it.  Multiple times at 700 yards I shot a sub 2" five shot groups with it.  It was amazing.  But it was way to heavy.  So I traded for a much shorter lighter barrel.    


Edited by supertool73 - March/17/2016 at 09:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2016 at 13:52
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build is better because you get to build something you kike and to you spec, whether you are right or left handed, but its more expensive
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