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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2008 at 00:02
KY Hick View Drop Down
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Well now I Have a scope, and it has the TMR reticle. The paper work Leupy sends with the scope dont seem to specific.

I got the 6.5x20x50 what is my true mildot magnification, do i change my numbers for the math based on magnification, or is there a magnification specific to this scope for mildot math.
 
I guess I could put out a target and figure out where my mark would be, but is there any info out there on the TMR that would help me.
 
I went to Leupys site and there wasnt much more info than whats in this little book. I need to learn how to work this shat, and my DUMB AZZ cant find much info.
 
THANKS YALLLLLLLLLLLLL
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2008 at 07:48
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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thing to keep in mind is the difference between "milling" on something to find the distance and then actually taking the shot. your scope is set up to judge distance at 20x, and the distance of subtended by the larger bar marks is 36 in at 1000 yd or 3.6 in at 100 yds. (approx.). once you have that distance consult a drop charge for the ballistics of the load you are using and then dial it in. It is possible to mil at any power simply find the ratio to actual. so if you set the power on 10 and mil, it would be 1/2 the values set on 20 etc. etc. If you take the shot at powers other than the highest power , and this is true of all sfp scopes the impact will be different than at the highest power. most of this has to do with the ballistic traj. having two points of "re-entry" in the target zone, one whens it rising and one on the way down. the further away the one on the way down is (ie flat shooting cartridges) this less impact the mag. change has.
the tmr reticle is one of the better ones out there.
sometimes the subject of shooters min. of angle and target min. of angle will come when discussing the way leo. does their cross hairs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2008 at 23:00
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http://www.kentonindustries.com/pics/picbytype/

Any Leupold Mark 4 LR/T M1, Vari-X III L.R. M1, MR/T M1 scope
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MD1 Mil-Dot Master                                                                                                          Mil-Dot Master
  • Estimating Target Size
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  • Correcting for Bullet Drop
  • Correcting for Wind Drift
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  • Correcting Correction to Mil (holdover)
  • Correcting Correction to MOA (sight adjustment)
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Think of it as a mildot reticle with lines rather than dots.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2009 at 11:15
sscoyote View Drop Down
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I also have a TMR reticle in 1 of my optics and love it. I use it for windage reference while dialing elevation, and as a rangefinding tool. Windage reference is simple. I run the ballistics program for my load, and simply calculate the windage as a function of the .5 mil marks (1.8 inch per hundred yds.). If the ballistics program says i need 4.2 IPHY of windage reference then i just divide that by 1.8 IPHY. 4.2/1.8 = 2.3 Now aim 2.3 .5 mil windage subtension units into the wind and take the shot. Of course this would be for a full value 3 or 9 o'clock wind. Any variation on this will require some quick mental calcs. in your mind, BUT THE .5 MIL SUBTENSION UNIT SHOULD BE THE STD.

Now rangefinding requires some study to be able to apply it to it's greatest accuracy potential. The finest subtension unit there is in that reticle are the 5 .2 mil stadia lines in the last mil of each quadrant. Here's the rangefinding calc (modified mil-ranging formula) for any multi-stadia reticle (inches to yds.)--

tgt. size (") x range of reticle subtension measurement (usually 100 yds.) / reticle subtension (") / mil-reading (decimal equivalent) = range (yds.)

 

Looks complicated, but super simple to apply. OK, suppose u want to range a 10" tgt. with this reticle as accurately as possible. The smaller the subtension unit (SU) the more accurate the rangefinding will be. So we will use the .2 mil (.72 inch per hundred yds.) as our SU. Now bracket the 10" tgt. somewhere in the reticle so that 1 edge of it is in the .2 mil area. Suppose it takes up 4.2 .2 mil (.72 inch per hundred yds.) SU's. Here's the calculation filling in the unknowns from above--

 
10" x 100 / .72 / 4.2 = 330 yds.
 
...see how it works? Any subtension unit can be plugged into the formula, from simple plex to Ballistic Plex, whatever.
 
Might be a good idea to practice right at home. Look out your windows to see if there are any tgts. u could practice on, like street signs, telephone poles, whatever. Whatever u do tho, be sure and do it discreetly. Might not be too good an idea for people to think you're practicing on them. Just go out and measure the "optical stds.," if u will, and laser back to your window, once again as discreetly as possible.


Edited by sscoyote - January/14/2009 at 15:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2009 at 11:22
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Thatss good advice right there.  You could also get a monocular like this one  http://www.swfa.com/pc-13759-2616-new-optolyth-10x28-monocular.aspx  that has a similar reticle to the TMR then you don't have to worry about people freaking out.  One of those is in my near future to use as a spotters tool as well. 

Hard part to ranging that way is know the actual size of the target, it works great when you do.  But not so great when you don't.  At the school I attend they have tons of different sized targets but they are similar in looks so if you guess the wrong size it can really throw your shot off.  I like to try and figure it out with the reticle and formula and then use my Leica to verify if I was correct. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2009 at 11:36
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More good advice ST.

 
I was out with a buddy hunting coyotes several weeks ago and he had a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14 on his AR. A herd of antelope ran by and stopped at a lasered 500 yds. I asked him to gap the buck in his reticle since i knew the plex subtension in that optic. He told me about 1.1 SU's (x-hair to plex post tip=2.7 IPHY) as above. Buck antelope r supposed to be 15" back to brisket, so i just plugged all the variables into the formula, and got this--
 
15 x 100 / 2.7 / 1.1 = 505
 
They then worked their way out to 700 yds. and i asked my buddy to do it again, and he told me maybe 80% (.8 SU).
 
15 x 100 / 2.7 / .8 = 694
 
Can u believe it? Hell i couldn't. Of course understanding the equation fully tells me just how lucky those readings were, but the last 5 antelope i've reticle-ranged (does and bucks with different reticles) have all been within 4% of lasered all the way out to 725 yds...so?? They give me good practice since i see a lot of them while coyote hunting.
 
Here's 1 that almost floored me--
 
We were shooting at a target @ 1000 yds. this past spring, and 1 of the guys asked how big it was, so i thought to try and calc. it with a buddy's mil-dot reticle (reverse mil). But his optic was a 2nd FP optic that the milliradian was cald. for a power less than the highest, and i didn't know what the subtension unit was at it's highest power. But we had a tgt. set out at 500 yds. that i did know the measurement of so i used that as a "std." It was 9.5" wide so i just mil'd. it in the reticle and it occupied .9 of the MD (edge of 1 dot to center of next). Heres' the formula leaving the subtension as the unknown--
 
9.5 x 100 / x / 0.9 = 500
 
x=2.1"
 
Then i mil'd. the 1000 yd. tgt. at .9 mil. once again. This time the the tgt. size was the unknown.
 
X x 100/2.1/0.9=1000
 
x = 18.9"
 
When we measured it later the tgt. size was actually 19.2". I about fell over--.3" off true measurement using a reticle to measure tgt. size...?? INCREDIBLE...at least to me it is. FUN too huh??


Edited by sscoyote - January/14/2009 at 15:23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2009 at 11:43
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I think thats the key is to practice, and learn the sizes of different animals, etc that you might encounter.  Another reason why I wanna get one of those monoculars, then I can practice all the time on anything I want.  Good stuff  Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2009 at 11:48
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

thing to keep in mind is the difference between "milling" on something to find the distance and then actually taking the shot. your scope is set up to judge distance at 20x, and the distance of subtended by the larger bar marks is 36 in at 1000 yd or 3.6 in at 100 yds. (approx.). once you have that distance consult a drop charge for the ballistics of the load you are using and then dial it in. It is possible to mil at any power simply find the ratio to actual. so if you set the power on 10 and mil, it would be 1/2 the values set on 20 etc. etc. If you take the shot at powers other than the highest power , and this is true of all sfp scopes the impact will be different than at the highest power. most of this has to do with the ballistic traj. having two points of "re-entry" in the target zone, one whens it rising and one on the way down. the further away the one on the way down is (ie flat shooting cartridges) this less impact the mag. change has.
the tmr reticle is one of the better ones out there.
sometimes the subject of shooters min. of angle and target min. of angle will come when discussing the way leo. does their cross hairs.



No offense, Dale, but this is bad,bad,bad!

Ranging scopes are precise in their magnification at the ends, NOT in between.  The 10X on your scope might not be (and probably is not) exactly where the 10X falls on the power ring numbering - you need to verify that 10X is 10X - or any power with which you wish to range.

next, in tense situations, it gets real tricky if you are ranging and calculating and using some fraction.  For benchwork at the local range, great, go for it; when the shot really counts, you can almost guarantee Murphy will have his way with you.

If the scope is designed to range at 20X, I'd recommend ranging - at least till you verify power on the dial - only at 20X.


I worked allot with ranging reticles and, especially with mil dots,  it is a very perishable skill; to do it well, you must do it often.

I too recommend the Kenton BDCs but only if you know your load info.  Generic info will get you within a few clicks, but nothing beats knowing exactly how many clicks takes you from X range to Y range by experience.
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