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Thoughts???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2013 at 16:09
gtomk View Drop Down
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I finally received my 375 H&H rifle.
I plan to glass bed the receiver but here is my question for you all.
Should I also glass bed the barrel, (full length)?
I have been reading that some peeps like the full length bedding and some like free float and some like bedding just the first 4" of so of the barrel.
A lot of peeps say that on a sporter weight barrel that free float is usually the best way to go. Um well does a 375 mag have a typical sporter weight barrel in the first place? IDK...
So what do you all think?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2013 at 16:14
RifleDude View Drop Down
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No, don't bed the barrel.

Bed action only and float barrel. You can always add a pressure point incrementally later (by first experimenting with shims, then making it permanent with epoxy if the presence of the shim produced tighter groups) if the floated barrel doesn't yield good results. That's much easier than bedding the whole channel, then having to sand it back out if your rifle shoots like crap as a result.

Always easier and cleaner to add as needed, if needed, than to remove when not needed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2013 at 16:22
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I would think a 375 Ouch & Ouch would not have a light barrel
 
Personally, my method is to bed the recoil lug and chamber area and let the barrel free float
 
 
IMO a full float is for those with lighter barrels and are mostly only concerned with the first shot.  Barrels are steel and will have different dimensions depending upon their temperature.  IOW a barrel would have a larger dimension when it is 90* thru and thru than when it is 35*.  On a lightweight barrel the difference would not be as large as on a heavy barrel.
 
Would also think that on a full float the pressure between the barrel and float would have to be just right
 
But, I could be wrong. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2013 at 00:32
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Depending on the stock material, you may want to bed the barrel channel, but with a enough space to have generous free-float. This will stiffen the fore-arm, and maybe keep a wood stock from swelling in high humidity.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2013 at 14:14
gtomk View Drop Down
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The stock is walnut.
BB what would generous space be, something like 2 layers of duct tape? I like the thought of the glass stiffening the wood and still having the barrel free floated.
Sako that is pretty much what I am thinking, what you said.
Rifle yep keep it simple usually works best.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2013 at 14:44
RifleDude View Drop Down
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After bedding the action, I've added bedding compound to stiffen bbl channels before by doing the following:
1. wrap the barrel tightly in 2 thicknesses of .008" thick electrical tape.
2. coat the electrical tape-covered barrel with release agent
3. rough out the bbl channel in the stock to give the epoxy some "bite" to better mechanically lock it to the stock mat'l after curing
4. create a "dam" with modeling clay forward of where the actual bedding surface ends at the bbl chamber support bedding (same as the chamber area Sakomato shows in his pic above) to keep more epoxy from migrating on top of the cured action bedding.
5. mix up some bedding epoxy, died brown to match the wood color. If it's a synthetic stock, I either don't dye the epoxy at all if I plan to repaint the stock, or I dye it black or gray to match same colored existing finish on synth stock
6. spread a ridge of epoxy in the bottom of the forend channel radius.
7. insert the action and tighten the action screws firmly.
8. skim off the excess bedding that squirts out from the gap between bbl and forend with a plastic knife and paper towels
9. let bedding cure undisturbed at least 12 hours
10. remove barreled action from stock and sand top line of forend to "square up" /clean up any remaining protruding bedding around gap between stock and bbl, if required.
11. smooth up epoxy surface inside bbl channel with sandpaper wrapped around a round wooden dowel so that you don't see the lines the tape wrap formed in the cured epoxy, if required
12. add "touch up" stock finish to any area where sanding removed finish and hand rub/wet sand to match remaining stock finish (if wood stock), if required. Paint stock (after masking off action bedding) if synthetic stock.

This leaves a nice, even, precise, close "float" gap between bbl and stock forend about the width of 3 sheets of copier paper -- plenty to ensure no bbl contact with stock, yet close enough that the gap isn't very noticeable without close inspection and the stock looks professionally fitted.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2013 at 20:06
Sgt. D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

After bedding the action, I've added bedding compound to stiffen bbl channels before by doing the following:
1. wrap the barrel tightly in 2 thicknesses of .008" thick electrical tape.
2. coat the electrical tape-covered barrel with release agent
3. rough out the bbl channel in the stock to give the epoxy some "bite" to better mechanically lock it to the stock mat'l after curing
4. create a "dam" with modeling clay forward of where the actual bedding surface ends at the bbl chamber support bedding (same as the chamber area Sakomato shows in his pic above) to keep more epoxy from migrating on top of the cured action bedding.
5. mix up some bedding epoxy, died brown to match the wood color. If it's a synthetic stock, I either don't dye the epoxy at all if I plan to repaint the stock, or I dye it black or gray to match same colored existing finish on synth stock
6. spread a ridge of epoxy in the bottom of the forend channel radius.
7. insert the action and tighten the action screws firmly.
8. skim off the excess bedding that squirts out from the gap between bbl and forend with a plastic knife and paper towels
9. let bedding cure undisturbed at least 12 hours
10. remove barreled action from stock and sand top line of forend to "square up" /clean up any remaining protruding bedding around gap between stock and bbl, if required.
11. smooth up epoxy surface inside bbl channel with sandpaper wrapped around a round wooden dowel so that you don't see the lines the tape wrap formed in the cured epoxy, if required
12. add "touch up" stock finish to any area where sanding removed finish and hand rub/wet sand to match remaining stock finish (if wood stock), if required. Paint stock (after masking off action bedding) if synthetic stock.

This leaves a nice, even, precise, close "float" gap between bbl and stock forend about the width of 3 sheets of copier paper -- plenty to ensure no bbl contact with stock, yet close enough that the gap isn't very noticeable without close inspection and the stock looks professionally fitted.

 
+100 Excellant list of instructions.
Also consider barrel weight. If you have calipers check the barrel diameter at the end of the forarm. If it measures .90 or more you have a heavy barrel and absolutely need to add glass to stiffen the forarm. And to be specific you need to wrap the barrel with three layers of tape for thickness and free float that diameter. Then if the stock is easy to flex (twist) by hand it helps to cut a small grove (1/4 wide, up to 1/4 deep) down the middle of the barrel channel with a dremel tool or wrasp. **Be sure you have enough wood before you cut the groove**. This will add stiffness to the length of the forarm (one inch from the barrel lug to the sling lug). Check your free float with a single piece of notebook paper. Some may say three layers of tape is too much and to each his own. I have found that the heavy barrel rifles I have built recently will close the cap of a two layer freefloat when I use a bi-pod or "V" rest. Once you've freefloated the wrapped barrel then apply your glass just like RifleDude has said. Yes it will be a open freefloat but it will be a true one that you won't have to wonder if you are getting consistant performance from. And with the walnut stock I suggest useing "Steel Bed" to help reduce temp and moisture flex effects from the wood.
I do suggest however that you decide what you feel is improvment. If your doing this for the experience then the improvment is worth it wether you get improved accuracy or not. But what is your goal. Even with the right tools this is a bit of a job. If your not satisfied with the accuracy your getting and have tried different ammo/ loads. Then this will probably be worth while. I only mention this because I have had a few come in with started projects and wanted me to finish em. Some have cost more that it would have cause I had to correct some damage.
Good Luck! Let us know how it goes.....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2013 at 23:46
RifleDude View Drop Down
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Forgot to mention... I do hog out some additional mat'l in the center of the forend to allow extra epoxy to stiffen the forend. I also mix in atomized stainless steel powder (you can get from Brownells) to the epoxy on occasion when I'm going for extra stiffness. I also use the SS powder mixed in with the epoxy in the recoil lug area for extra insurance whenever I'm bedding heavy kicking rifles. This obtains the same result as Steel Bed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 09:39
gtomk View Drop Down
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WOW all I can say is a big THANKS for all of this gr8 info and directions. Funny that you mention the 1/4" groove in the center of the for arm as I was thinking about this last night when I couldnt sleep.
I have not shot the rifle yet. Am doing this because I tried to slip a sheet of notebook paper between the barrel and the wood. Would go on one side but not the other, so am guessing that the accuracy is gonna be off anyways. Also from what I have read here and other boards, in general it just not a bad idea to do on a gun that has much recoil.
Thanks again all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 09:40
gtomk View Drop Down
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One more question, should I do this in 2 steps or one single step? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 10:02
RifleDude View Drop Down
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When you refer to 2 steps vs. 1 step, are you referring to the action bedding and forend stiffening/floating or the forend only?

You need to bed the action before you do anything else. This sets a foundation for the forend work. You want to ensure the action is bedded stress-free, and if you introduce pressure on the barrel while the action bedding is still uncured, the final bedding will reflect the stressed condition the action was under as the bedding cures.

If you're referring to just the bbl channel, you can do that in one step. Bbl channel AND action -- 2 separate steps, action always coming first.

If I'm adding bedding epoxy to a barrel channel, I'll usually do another skim bedding in the action area afterwards, just to make sure the action is sitting stress-free in the stock. I use a Dremel tool with a sanding attachment and lightly rough up the previous bedding so the skim bedding will adhere better to the cured bedding underneath. Then simply press the action back down into the stock WITHOUT tightening the action screws. You only want the screws (coated with release agent, of course) to be there to prevent epoxy from running into the screw holes on the bottom of the action. I always remove the trigger assy to keep epoxy from mechanically locking up around it. Likewise, I also fill any holes, grooves, or other recesses anywhere on the bottom of the action that could come into contact with the epoxy with modeling clay to prevent the bedding from migrating into these areas and locking the action in the stock.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 11:21
gtomk View Drop Down
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Was meaning to do action first and then the barrel channel. But you covered that very well in your next paragraph and thanks.
A question on the action screws tho.
So you do not tighten the action screws when bedding the action, Am guessing that you just press the action into the bedding and it stays by its own weight.  But after when putting it all back together do you torque the screws so that the pressure is the same front and back Or just hand tighten till it feels tight? Am I being to anal about this?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 12:42
RifleDude View Drop Down
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No, I don't torque the action screws down AT ALL while the bedding is setting up. You don't want to induce any stress on the action while the bedding epoxy is still soft. I press it into place and, if needed, wrap the action with rubber bands or tape to keep it from tilting in the stock (only if the bbl is heavy enough to cantilever the action), and I make a few wraps of tape around the barrel to center it in the forend so the bedding sets up with the action properly centered. If the bbl is light and short, I just let the action set up with its own weight holding it in place while the epoxy cures. When the bedding cures, I drill out the screw holes in the stock back to normal dia to provide clearance for the screws and trim off the excess epoxy that seeped into the magazine well with a Dremel tool.

After the bedding job is complete, yes I do torque the action screws tight. By that time, the bedding is already set so torque isn't going to bend the bedding. I usually pillar bed, so the amount of screw torque isn't that critical. I just snug the front and back screws with my calibrated hand and go shooting. The one thing I would caution against with regards to torque... if you have a 3-screw action (i.e. hinged floorplate and trigger guard are separate pieces, not integral) where all 3 screws thread into the action, DO NOT torque the middle screw tightly. Just snug it so it isn't loose. Its only purpose is to secure the front of the trigger guard. You don't want the middle screw trying to bow the center of the action.

I usually tighten the front screw (near the recoil lug) with just a touch more torque than the rear (tang) screw.

Hope this helps.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 13:25
gtomk View Drop Down
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Ok I think I have it now. Starting to strip the stock today, then will do the bedding and then refinish.
Much thanks for your help and patience Ted and others.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 14:11
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You're very welcome!

One thing that may need clarification from my previous post... when I said I wrap tape or rubber bands around the action, I mean around the action and stock, after the action is placed into the bedding in the stock. Don't want anyone to think I mean I wrap the tape/rubber bands around the action only and therefore have the tape/rubber bands sandwiched between action and stock.

I'm sure you understood what I meant; just don't want anyone to get the wrong idea.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 15:01
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+100
" Excellant list of instructions.
Also consider barrel weight. If you have calipers check the barrel diameter at the end of the forarm. If it measures .90 or more you have a heavy barrel and absolutely need to add glass to stiffen the forarm. "

The measurement on mine is .810.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2013 at 20:52
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Sounds like a #19 or light varmint contour. So stiffining the forarm is optional. But either way be sure you have a good open freefloat with that wood stock. Its gonna shift some due to temp and moisture changes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2013 at 13:41
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Ok will do and thanks Sgt.
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