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THE VX-7 still doesnt measure up

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2007 at 08:10
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Edited by SAKO75 - February/17/2009 at 12:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2007 at 09:06
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Why does the FOV decrease with the objective size?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2007 at 09:23
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I believe it has to do with focal length. Longer the scope usually decreases FOV.

Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2007 at 09:37
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Dam the bad luck. Guess I'll have to spend half the money and buy a Nikon.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2007 at 12:40
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The Zeiss has shorter eye relief, which is common with wider angle eyepieces. Wider angle eyepieces, unless large and heavy, also tend to have softer edges. Weight would be a lower point of comparison for me, and I'd tend to take the heavier one with no other information available, especially since Leupold seems to provide scopes for military. That being the case for me the differences are moot, as I'd prefer to see what the resolution and contrast are between them.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2007 at 14:01
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Edited by SAKO75 - February/17/2009 at 12:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2007 at 20:30
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Originally posted by SAKO75 SAKO75 wrote:



No DOubt that the VX-7's are probably great scopes but my New Diavari with the new Lotutec coating was cheaper than a NIB VX-7 2.5-10x45. I got more FOV, lighter scope, larger sight picture for a cheaper price and one more thing at least as good optics!

 

I think you're being kind with "at least as good" optics comment .  I'd say that the new Diavari is a bit better...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2007 at 01:14
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The heart of any optical system is actually the ocular, so it's the ocular that makes the FOV bigger.

The objective has nothing to do with FOV as the objetive main purpose it to collect light.

 

FOV stands in direct relationship with eyerelief and the longer eyerelief the less FOV.

 

I am surprised to see that Leupold still have severe problems with moving eyerelief, Zeiss have produced fixed eyerelief variable scopes since 1922 and 85 years later Leupold can't do the same thing.

Embarrasing........

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2007 at 15:12
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"I am surprised to see that Leupold still have severe problems with moving eyerelief, Zeiss have produced fixed eyerelief variable scopes since 1922 and 85 years later Leupold can't do the same thing. Embarrasing........"

 

"I would say that across the 2-5-10 range of my zeiss, its anywhere from 4 to 3.5". "

 

Enbarrasing for both apparently. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2007 at 15:36
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Not at all, cause on my Zeiss scopes I can hold my head at the same spot over all magnifications.

On the Leupolds I had but now is sold, i couldnt.

 

I can't agree that Zeiss has a problem with moving eyerelief.

 

Regards Technika

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2007 at 19:07
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I went back tonight and set the scope down in a fixed position and adjusted the power from low to high. I barely had to move my eye. SO i'll agree with technika. The variation is almost non-existent, drastically less than the Leupolds
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2007 at 15:29
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Originally posted by SAKO75 SAKO75 wrote:

I copied this from another forum. Basically the VX-7 is heavier and with less FOV than the diavari and swaro 30mm model

Leupold's VX-7, even if the glass is AS GOOD, as a diavari from zeiss still comes up short in other areas like field of view and weight

 

If that's the criteria for "coming up short," then doesn't it stand to reason that the Schmidt & Bender 2.5-10X50 likewise "comes up short" to the Zeiss in terms of FOV and weight?

 

S&B 2.5-10X50 Variable

FOV:  39.6/12

Weight:  22oz.

Length:  14.8

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2007 at 15:49
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Edited by SAKO75 - February/17/2009 at 12:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2007 at 18:49
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Sorry, meant 2.5-10X56 S&B -- typo.  However, their 1.5-6X42 Zenith still weighs 21oz. if weight is a criteria for judging whether a 30mm main tube scope in this class is inferior to another and objective dia doesn't have a direct influence on FOV.  All their variable scopes weigh within 3-4 oz of each other, and all are way heavier than either the Zeiss or Swaro scopes you mention.  My point is, depending on the intended use and the merits of a scope's other qualities, individual specs by themselves don't necessarily mean a given scope doesn't stack up well against its competitors.

 

Now, if several aspects of a scope are inferior compared to another -- i.e., optical quality, FOV, eye relief, weight, mechanics, build quality -- then yes, I think it's safe to conclude it falls short of its competition.

 

Just like most of us here, I haven't seen a VX-7, so I don't know whether this scope compares favorably to others in its price bracket or not, but I certainly don't think we can conclude based solely on a couple specs. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2007 at 23:01
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Rifledude

In a way you are right that mostly of us not have seen it yet, but still:

I would never buy a scope with varible eyerelief, regardless of make and price.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2007 at 08:38
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Given the option, I wouldn't choose variable eye relief over a decent amount of fixed eye relief either.  That is one thing I don't like about Leupolds, but have to admit, it has never been a problem for me on the ones I've used.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2007 at 11:13
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Well my opinion on the VX7 is posted on other VX7 threads but to sum it up, bottom line:pathetic waste of money.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 05:51
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"I can assure you that this zeiss has no soft edges. I promise you on that."

 

Some night point your rifle and scope towards a clear sky, steady the rifle, and look carefully at the stars in the center of the field and the edge of the field. It's a simple but tough test for any low to moderate power optic, very few have edges as good as the center, and Zeiss is no exception. Good optics will have a tight images to maybe 2/3rds of the field, very good to 3/4ths of the field.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 05:55
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"As far as the military and their scopes, zeiss makes Hensoldt which is used extensively by many sniper teams throughout Europe. Schmidt & Bender is used over there as well and by our own USMC (S&B 3-12x50) here in the USA, word is the US Army is switching to the S&B 4-16x42 PMII for their next scope. Where does that leave Leupold?"

 

Doing well, as the Zeiss sniper scopes seem to have some problems. S&B is a 'crummy scope' though isn't it, as like the Leupold they're heavier than a similar AOS Zeiss.

 

http://snipersparadise.com/sniperchat/index.php?showtopic=31 06

 

I have a Zeiss in my current set: Sako TRG-42 in .338 Lapua with AU Jet-Z silencer and sako bipod.

Good tube, bit pricey though. It has a reticle called Finndot( a mildot with a stadia lines for 1m high target in the bottom.)

Mine got a BDC for our armys .338 ammo, and I load my ammo to those specs .

Got some troubles around 200 rounds. One shattered lense inside the tube. The reason for the "stardust" was most likely the negative recoil while using muzzlebrake or silencer. A little bit loose lense wich get pounded so much that started to brake down. The scope was sent to Germany to repairs and was good as new when returned after 3 weeks. No problems after that...

 

(a reply in the thread)

 

The Finnish Defence Forces uses .338 Lapua Magnum caliber green stock Sako TRG-42s with Zeiss 3-12x56mm SSG-P "FinnDot" scopes as their official primary sniper rifles/sniper weapons system. The Finnish Armed Forces use the military name of .338 LM Sako TRG-42, which is Tarkka-ampujakivääri 2000 or in short Tkiv 2000 (direct translation in English is simply Sniper Rifle 2000).

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 09:16
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the m995 action on those TRG's is amazing. wish i had one in every caliber.

 

338 lapua is a brutal kicker. but spot on for long range.

 

i will live vicariously through you. and stick to my 308 and 284 calibers.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 15:15
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Originally posted by jonbravado jonbravado wrote:

the m995 action on those TRG's is amazing. wish i had one in every caliber.

 

338 lapua is a brutal kicker. but spot on for long range.

 

i will live vicariously through you. and stick to my 308 and 284 calibers.

 

J

 

 

Actually the TRG-42 in 338 Lapua is a pussycat with the muzzle-brake (a really LOUD pussycat mind you) and not too bad with the muzzle brake off. They are superbly accurate and much fun to shoot:

 

 

 

 

 

........................................DJ

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 15:38
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Nice rifles. I have shot this caliber a few times and agree that it is very managable in recoil and very accurate,

with break or without.

 



Edited by Trinidad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 21:44
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With heavy recoiling rifles I'd rather have more eye relief than just a fixed one, as the specs originally posted show the Leupold providing an inch more. Weight seems to be a moot point as a number of other well regarded scopes are also heavier than a Zeiss.

 

I couldn't find specifics on the 'thin lens technology', but it appears that Zeiss is using a low dispersion glass, and using triplet lens objectives in some optics. Maybe the glass is special in some way, but people have been using low dispersion glass for a long time. A triplet will typically use a thinner lens than a doublet, so is this all that 'thin lens' consists of ?

 

Looking at a press release below it appears that Zeiss admist that they enhance the blue transmitted portion of the spectrum, something that I suspected when most people say that the Zeiss is 'very bright', as Zeiss binoculars don't seem to have a reputation for the highest transmission when it's measured.

 

These observations and questions don't detract from the fact that Zeiss makes excellent optics, but it maybe it suggests that there is perhaps less substance to some of the claims about their optics being superior to so many other well regarded makes.       

 

http://www.zeiss.com/41256AFB004A4E21/WebViewTopNewsAllE/58B 564973ADD5B4985257266005C8250?OpenDocument

Outstanding optical performance and low-light capability are assured due to the use of Zeiss’ proprietary Advanced Optics System thin-lens technology (AOS), featuring lead and arsenic free glass. The world-renowned T* multi-coatings applied to the AOS lenses enhance the clarity and resolution by affording truer color and higher contrast. These coatings also offer a higher transmission in the blue range, assuring brighter images and better colors in low light situations. In addition, as with all VICTORY series products, these scopes will come with Zeiss’ exclusive LotuTec™ water-repellent coating.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 23:56
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When it comes to thin lenses Zeiss have actually revolutioned the eyeglasses technologie by "highbreaking" ( don't know if that is the correct english word) glass. MAny people that would need to have 1/2" thick glasses, can today due to those "highbreaking" glasses use thin eyeglasses.

So I suspect they use the same technologie and glass types to have less weight in their scopes.

 

When it comes to the eyerelief, I am very negative to the variable eyerelief of Leupold, but some others light trijicon 1,25-4 does have it as well. The variable eyerelief makes really fast shots impossible as  you never know where to place the head on the gun.

So there can never be anything positive with the variable eyerelief, its only negative.

 

If you due to recoil needs longer eyerelief that is another thing, but the long eyerelief does not have to be variable over the magnification to archive that, look on swarovski Z6 with1-6 that have 120 mm fixed eyerelief.

In mostly cases I prefer shorter eyerelief, as it's better optically, the FOV becomes larger and there is less light problems.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2007 at 13:24
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It appears that Leupold will continue to supply the Army with scopes for the M24 rifle, while S&B has been awarded a contract to replace the Unertl scopes for the marine's M40 rifles.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System

 

Sights: 10 x 42 Leupold Ultra M3A telescopic sight (Mil-Dot), detachable emergency iron sights (Redfield Palma International).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40_rifle

 

A Schmidt & Bender 3-12x50 rifle scope with illuminated reticle will replace the MST-100 Unertl type fixed 10x day scope currently used for the M40A3.

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