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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2009 at 21:32
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i going to be buying 150 acres in north ontario canada. there are many dangers anmails the main two im worried is polar bears and brown bear. im looking at buying a lever action gun but dont know what caliber to get it in. can someone suggest a good one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2009 at 21:46
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if you want a lever gun buy a .450marlin. in a browning blr actually.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2009 at 21:51
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45-70 or 450 Marlin if you are after a lever gun. Personally I would want a .375 H&H bolt action or larger 416 Rigby, 458 Win Mag.   The .375 H&H has enough of a variety of bullets to use it for other game and at greater distance, but for self defense at close range there is no such thing as too big.  The 375 Ruger is also a viable option.  Under no circumstance should one confront a bear with a 30-30.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2009 at 21:55
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.416 ruger could be added as well. i can see why he wants a lever gun, open sights rapid target acquisition, and quick firing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2009 at 22:41
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 Are there really brown bears in Ontario?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2009 at 22:41
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Head Banger  OMG a "Bear" thread... Let's just add the key words Paris Hilton and Micheal Jackson and get it all over with at once.  Oh ya Illuminati (knew I missed something).

If you are serious, just google it and you will then understand my responce.  It is classic troll bait and you have only one posting.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2009 at 02:57
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JTF..................If you are going to use this rifle strictly for defensive purposes only when needed in close quarters and not necessarily for hunting, the 18.5" tubed Marlin Guide Gun in the 450 Marlin would be an excellent choice and my top pick. It is shorter in OAL, extremely handy and very quick to get into action.
 
If more hunting and stalking these bears are involved at greater ranges along with defensive purposes too, then a bolt 375 or 416 would do just fine. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2009 at 10:47
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You don't have to worry about brownies or grizzlies in Ontario, they aren't to be found. You can get some really big black bear, though.

Are you buying up near the James Bay or even Hudson Bay area? Their are certainly polar bear in those regions.
I would look at the .450 Marlin as mentioned or look at a 45-70. The 45-70 is easier to get ammo for and can hit as hard as the .450 Marlin. You need to look beyond the big three to get that ammo, though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2009 at 23:43
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.the ones i was looking at were 444marlin 450 marlin and 45-70. i live in ontario so i know what animals are going to be there(i made a mistake in the first post i ment black bear there are no brown bears in ontario). and i know that a black bear can be taken by a .303 britsh but i would like something a little powerful of polar bear and lever action for a quck second shot
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2009 at 00:29
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Throw out the 444 marlin and give consideration to the other two. If you reload the 45-70 can be loaded about the same as the 450 marlin. If you dont reload and want a hot cartridge the 450 marlin is the one. You can get Buffalo Bore loaded Ammo for the  45-70 that is smoking hot.  Personally I'd buy 45-70 because I like to load a straight wall case.   I'd go stainless and if you are hunting stuff with it the longer barrel but if its just defensive the shorter barrel because you are more likely to carry it due to less weight and better handling at the expense of slightly more recoil.    I'm kind of liking this new model but I have not seen one for sale yet and I would put a 2moa aimpoint on it or a  Trijicon Reflex sight.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - July/14/2009 at 00:36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2009 at 00:31
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

.416 ruger could be added as well. i can see why he wants a lever gun, open sights rapid target acquisition, and quick firing.
 
Brass ?  What Brass?   Ammo?  What Ammo?  It may become a viable alternative but I wouldnt buy one yet unless I could find that brass first.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2009 at 06:05
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That's the ticket you found there, Wes. That comes tricked out from the factory and I like it! That stick has to carry real nice.
 
Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2009 at 06:23
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

.416 ruger could be added as well. i can see why he wants a lever gun, open sights rapid target acquisition, and quick firing.
 
Brass ?  What Brass?   Ammo?  What Ammo?  It may become a viable alternative but I wouldnt buy one yet unless I could find that brass first.

ok he who mentioned the .375 ruger and the .416 rigby and the .458winmag Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2009 at 19:20
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i proabably going to take up all the ammo i use so finding it will not be a problem. Urimaginaryfrnd i like the last gun you showed from marlin. do you know what the recoil would be like.some of you said to get a bolt actoin if i was to get one what gun and caliber would then be a good pick on the lowwer recoil side
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2009 at 23:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2009 at 21:16
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Originally posted by JTF2 JTF2 wrote:

i proabably going to take up all the ammo i use so finding it will not be a problem. Urimaginaryfrnd i like the last gun you showed from marlin. do you know what the recoil would be like.some of you said to get a bolt actoin if i was to get one what gun and caliber would then be a good pick on the lowwer recoil side


The recoil of the 45/70 depends on what rounds you shoot.  I have the Marlin 1895 Guide Gun and love it.  I don't think the recoil is too bad, but I mainly shoot the 325 gr bullets.  The 400 grain at lower speeds are actually less kick to me than the 325s @ 2000 fps.  But I am betting the Buffalo Bore ammo (hot stuff) has much more punch to it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2009 at 19:32
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Pyro I'm sure that at some point the Ruger 416 Ruger will become a fine choice as it is likely a short case 416 Rigby in disguise.  The discussion regarding what caliber you use really has to be based on how you intend to use the rifle as well as what ammo is likely to be available.  The minimum cartridge for a bear is a 30-06 and 300 Win Mag is better but even the 30 cal guns are truely on the light side for dangerous game. Most people really like the 338 Win Mag in bear country. The .375 H&H and the .375 Ruger are designed for African game but I really like the .375 H&H and I have seen a .375 Ruger that was a short compact solid stainless rifle with rubber type stock that would be a ideal choice for self defense from large dangerous game. The 416 Rigby, 458 Win Mag 460 Wby Mag 470 Nitro Express and many other Large Bore dangerous game guns are all known to be effective. The 45-70 with the correct heavy loads like ones from Buffalo Bore would be quite adequate but still not have the energy of a .375 H&H or a .375 Ruger.  A 300 gr Barnes Copper Solid from a .375 will shoot a Cape Buffalo from end to end and exit - that is penetration.  A .416 is even better but the .416 Ruger only becomes useful once the gun and the ammo become available and I have not seen either of them anywhere but they will be comming out soon.  The other consideration is will it be a scoped rifle and will it be used secondarily to hunt with and if so what distance.  I'd be fairly comfortable hunting with a 45-70 out to 150 yds but a .375  I would be quite comfortable hunting at 300 to 400 yds with.

45-70   HOT loads from Buffalo Bore: 45-70 ammo selection makes a life or death difference.
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 500 gr. F.M.J.F.N.(1,625fps/M.Energy.  2,931 ft.lbs.)
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 350 gr. J.F.N.(2,100fps/M.Energy.      3,427 ft.lbs.) Thunbs Up
 
 
Load No
Caliber
Grains/ Grams
Bullet Style
Brand
Use
P375F
375 H&H Magnum
300 / 19.44
  Dangerous gameBuffaloThunbs UpThunbs Up
P338B2
338 Win. Magnum
250 / 16.2
 Large, heavy gameelkThunbs Up
P416T1
416 Rigby
400 / 25.92
 Dangerous gameBuffaloThunbs UpThunbs Up
4570AS
45-70 Government
300 / 19.44
  Medium gamedeerThumbs Down
P458T2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2009 at 19:47
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[QUOTE=Urimaginaryfrnd]

Pyro I'm sure that at some point the Ruger 416 Ruger will become a fine choice as it is likely a short case 416 Rigby in disguise.  The discussion regarding what caliber you use really has to be based on how you intend to use the rifle as well as what ammo is likely to be available.  The minimum cartridge for a bear is a 30-06 and 300 Win Mag is better but even the 30 cal guns are truely on the light side for dangerous game. Most people really like the 338 Win Mag in bear country. The .375 H&H and the .375 Ruger are designed for African game but I really like the .375 H&H and I have seen a .375 Ruger that was a short compact solid stainless rifle with rubber type stock that would be a ideal choice for self defense from large dangerous game. The 416 Rigby, 458 Win Mag 460 Wby Mag 470 Nitro Express and many other Large Bore dangerous game guns are all known to be effective. The 45-70 with the correct heavy loads like ones from Buffalo Bore would be quite adequate but still not have the energy of a .375 H&H or a .375 Ruger.  A 300 gr Barnes Copper Solid from a .375 will shoot a Cape Buffalo from end to end and exit - that is penetration.  A .416 is even better but the .416 Ruger only becomes useful once the gun and the ammo become available and I have not seen either of them anywhere but they will be comming out soon.  The other consideration is will it be a scoped rifle and will it be used secondarily to hunt with and if so what distance.  I'd be fairly comfortable hunting with a 45-70 out to 150 yds but a .375  I would be quite comfortable hunting at 300 to 400 yds with.

45-70   HOT loads from Buffalo Bore: 45-70 ammo selection makes a life or death difference.
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 500 gr. F.M.J.F.N.(1,625fps/M.Energy.  2,931 ft.lbs.)
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 350 gr. J.F.N.(2,100fps/M.Energy.      3,427 ft.lbs.) Thunbs Up
 
 
Load No
Caliber
Grains/ Grams
Bullet Style
Brand
Use
P375F
375 H&H Magnum
300 / 19.44
  Dangerous gameBuffaloThunbs UpThunbs Up
P338B2
338 Win. Magnum
250 / 16.2
 Large, heavy gameelkThunbs Up
P416T1
416 Rigby
400 / 25.92
 Dangerous gameBuffaloThunbs UpThunbs Up
4570AS
45-70 Government
300 / 19.44
  Medium gamedeerThumbs Down
P458T2
458 Win. Magnum
500 / 32.4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/19/2009 at 20:43
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Probably why both of us own a .375 H&H where the 338 Rem mag shines is at 500+ yds.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - July/19/2009 at 20:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2009 at 09:37
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The .338 Win Mag worked fine on my 8-foot 3-inch brown bear.
 
If you are going with a bolt, you need to be sure it can be worked quickly (by you).  I find that the Remington 700 bolt can be slapped open and closed very quickly and easily with the palm of my hand, for a truly fast reload. 
 
The Ruger bolt rifle doesn't do this as quickly for me.  I feel two distinct stages as the bolt is opened, and again as it is closed, possibly due to the Mauser-style feed.  This slows up things considerably, and can cause a possible hang-up in the process (at least for me).   Obviously, different folks will have different techniques and reactions.  I don't intend in any way  to malign Ruger's fine rifles.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2009 at 20:46
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45-70 for a lever action and .300win mag for a bolt action
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2009 at 21:32
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WoW, great CS!!!!  Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2009 at 06:58
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All the calibres listed would work fine.  You initially suggested a lever - what is your comfort level on a bolt Vs lever action?  Sometimes hard to find the hot 45-70 loads here unless you reload.  Have no trouble getting Hornady 450 Marlin so that is still a good choice.  Don't think recoil will be an issue if you are staring down a big black or polar bear (you must be a long way north).
 
If you are considering a bolt, a Savage 116FHSS in 300 WM or 338 would be ideal and fairly economical. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2009 at 21:31
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Just to add fuel to the fire, how about the 1895 Winchester in a .405 ?
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