New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Tell the Difference
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Tell the Difference

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2006 at 11:19
nksmfamjp View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/06/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 102

I have only used ~$250 to ~$300 binoculars extensively in the field.  I have had mine broken by some helpful children.

 

I have been comparing binoculars, extensively in the store(~75yards max).  I cannot cleaarly see a $1400 differencee between $250 Nikon 8x36 Monarch ATB's and $1700 8x30-44 high end binoculars(Swarovski EL/SLC, Leica, Zeiss, Brunton, etc.)  I feel like there is no difference at all.  Am I blind, or can you help me tell the difference?  What should I be looking for?  I even had a binocular chart at one place and could tell little difference.  About the only thing I could tell was an ever so slight difference in depth of field, but the Nikons were still pretty darn good.  I have even looked into low light and high light parts of the store.  All of this was done as a direct comparison.  Please show me the difference?  . . .or reccomend a deer hunting opthamalogy specialist.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2006 at 12:20
Bird Watcher View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1490
First of all, I think that you probably fall into that large percentage of consumers who experience the very same thing, when comparing binocular optics inside of a store, under artifical lighting. (Looking through optics, inside a building, has very limited value.)

Binoculars need to be tested outdoors, as no one purchases them to use inside a building. (Indoor testing would have to be quite extensive and varied, and retail businesses are not set up to provide such things.)

Binoculars should be compared/tested under cloudy skies, at dawn and at dusk, and into the darkness, as these are the types of conditions that they will be used for, in the field. This is when you WILL begin to SEE the differences between optical glass, optical coatings, differences in prism types and prism sizes, and the differences between objective apertures from 30-44mm that you mentioned.

I really don't know how many retail stores have an outdoor area for their customers to test optics, but, I am guessing that they are few and far between.

This is why it is important to have Optics Talk Forums where you can do some additional homework and have your questions answered by experienced consumers. The people on this forum have tons of knowledge to share with you.

Another thing that I personally find very helpful is the individual manufacturers specifications sheets, in their catalogs. Or, going to different manufacturers web-sites where I can read as much as possible about the different models that I am interested in. This type of information COMBINED with everything else will help us to make more intelligent choices.

Be patient, as it takes alittle time.





Edited by Bird Watcher
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2006 at 09:27
nksmfamjp View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/06/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 102

Well, it is morning here and I have been comparing binoculars again.  I have compared my dad's 10 x 50 Pentax Porros ~$300 10 years ago to his Leupold Wind River reverse porro 8 x 23?? binoculars.  The 10 x 50's are much brighter, but I would guess that is mostly exit pupil related.

 

Mid day, these 2 bino's represent similar performance.

 

I guess I could buy the the most reasonabley priced of the high dollar bino's and a pair of $300 8 x 42 Nikon's to compare, but this seems unnecessary, isn't it?  I could also try them outside, maybe. . .but usually these sportings goods stores don't want to mess around unless you are buying today.

 

One thing which can be tested in the store is light handling.  There is lots of stray light in the store.  That strong stray light killed a pair of Steiner 8x30 Predator's that I was looking through.  There were bloches all over caused by light bouncing around.

 

I also was looking from a well lit area into a dark inside of a tent.  The Nikon 8x42 Monarch, 8x36 Monarch  and 8x30 Swaro SLC's all performed about equal.

 

The end of all this has left me confused.

 

Basically, I'm trying to decide if I get the larger Nikon 8x42 as an all purpose bino, or if I get the Nikon 8x36 as a usable compact until I can get the money together for a "big three" $1500ish bino.  I'm basically limited to <$300 at this point.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2006 at 15:17
Bird Watcher View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1490
I am going to recommend the Luepold Cascades 8x42mm Internal Focus Porro Prism binocular. These run around $275 on the internet.

Others who have purchased the Cascades say that they are bright and sharp and have outstanding low-light performance.

The purpose of the objective lens is to gather incoming light. The larger the objective's diameter the more light the binocular gathers. So, it is not just the exit pupil alone that produces the brightness. Brightness is also influenced by the optical coatings and the type of prisms used.

If you have time, you could go to www.cloudynights.com and at the upper left side of the home page you will see the heading cn reports, click on that and scroll down the page until you see CN Report: Nikon Action Extremes. It would be a good report for you to read.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/24/2006 at 17:41
Acenturian View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: September/07/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 543

NOt to repeat what Bird Watcher said, but testing in a store under artifical light is not a true relection of what the bino's are capable of.  I will go as far as to say that on nice crystal clear days you will not see a huge difference between a $300 and a $1,000 pair. I know this because I have two hunting buddies that hunt with Zeiss and another hunts with Leica. When I compared them to my $450 pair of Weaver Grand Slams on a nice clear blue bird day I kept thinking to myself "I can't see much difference at all, and sure not another $600 (Plus) in performance. Personally, thought they really wasted their money.

 

Ok, fast forward we started hunting in horrible weather rain, snow (lots of snow) then a sunny break. When the sun broke the Weavers had a great deal of Chromatic distortion because of the white snow reflection. It was bad. When I looked through their high end stuff the difference now was now very pronounced. I went home and started saving.

 

Now that is not to say that a $300 pair of binoculars are bad, in fact quite the opposite. I think the difference between the $300 Leupold Cascades, Nikon Monrachs, Bushnell Legends, Carson XM's and Pentax DCF HRII and the $49.99 drug store special is going to be HUGE.  As the price goes up the gap gets smaller for performance. Many hunters are well served with this level of glass. Infact I'll be the first to tell someone who is used to the $49.99 special to go buy a decent entry level quality glass they will never regret it.

 

When your buying binoculars from the BIG Three (Zeiss, Leica, Swarovski) and I'll through in Leupold Golden Ring, Bushnell Elites, Nikon Premier Series, Kahles, Minox HG basically high end stuff your paying for piece of mind and for those times when on a hunt or out bird watching when things get really bad and nasty (low light horrible weather conditions) you have the best optics available, which is really important especially if your behind them for hours on end.   Like I said I used to think it was a waste of money till I saw first hand what you pay for.  Also, its like I told family members that thought I was crazy, "if you think a $1400 is expensive for binoculars try paying for a guided hunt in Alaska or Africa and go with cheap glass, now you spent all that money to get there and you may not see a thing". OR perhaps even worse your out hunting in your favorite area and MR. Trophy (Elk , Deer, ect...) goes by just as the sun is setting or rising and you can't make out the animal because of bad glass. 

 

Plus, the BIG 3 are known (as well as Leupold) for taking very good care of their customers. I can't remember what one of the BIG 3 it was, but I heard a story of a guy who was on a hunt in Alaska and going from bigger plane to smaller plane his binoculars got broke. Now here he is on a guided hunt already in Alaska and now no binoculars.  He calls the company (again not sure which one of the three) they tell him where the nearest store is that carries the same bino's and that they will call ahead and the store will be expecting the hunter,  go in hand them the broken pair and they will hand you a new pair and enjoy your hunt.   That to me is WELL worth the money.

 

On that note in your price range, I've handled the Leupold mentioned (I think or it may have been the Olympic) either way I was very impressed with the binoculars so I'll second the above post. Also, I had a pair (sold them to buy the Weavers) Carson Xm series they were fantasic glass and well above their price range in performance. Just a consideration. Below is a great link to a review of the Carsons.

http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0404/je0404-1.htm l

Those are the same pair I had, I have been told that Carson now has the XM series HD (High definition) which is supposed to be even better. I took a chance buying these from a pretty much unknown company but they were very friendly the glass is top notch in its price range and they come with about the best warranty out there.

 

Happy Holidays

AC

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2006 at 09:16
nksmfamjp View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/06/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 102

OK, so I've combed the internet and have come up with these bino's.  I'll probably be buying sight unseen because many of these are hard to find locally.  Really locally, 90% of the bino's are blister pack quality!  Any reccomendations from these?

 

1.  Bushnell/Bausch and Lomb Discoverer 7x42 Binoculars(614207)

2.  Pentax DCF WP II 8x42 Waterproof Roof Prism Binoculars(62551)

3.  Swift 8.5x44mm BWCF Audubon Birder Waterproof Binoculars(820)

4.  Leupold Cascades 8x42mm Internal Focus Porro Prism Binoculars(60992)

5.  Nikon Monarch ATB 8x42 Waterproof Binoculars(7430)

6.  Nikon 8x36 Monarch ATB Binoculars(7513)

 

Also, how is Cambridge World to deal with?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2006 at 12:48
Bird Watcher View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1490
Excellent choices:

1) Pentax DCF WP II 8x42

2) Bushnell Discoverer 7x42

3) Leupold Cascades 8x42 Internal Focus Porro

You really picked some very good binoculars and I would narrow them down to these three, based upon past performance and overall satisfaction.

I like the Swift Audubon 8.5x44 but if my memory serves me correctly there were some past complaints about waterproofing, and also, I think that there is an ED version that has better optics.

If you have time take a look at the Minox BD 8x44 BP porro prism binocular. www.minox.com



Edited by Bird Watcher
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2006 at 15:02
Acenturian View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: September/07/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 543

Out of all of the class your looking at the Swift Audubon will be the best.  As far as water proofing well I wouldn't use them scuba diving but I've had my ED pair out in the rain and my Dad has the non-ed glass in the rain and they were fine.  The only concern with the Swifts is eye relief.  Besides great glass they have a wonderful huge field of view.  If you wear glasses you will loose out on some of that because the eye relief is pretty short.

 

I've also heard very good things about the Minox Poro's so that would be worth a look. Also if you hunt around and can find the Baush & Lomb Discoverer Poro's I bought those last Christmas for my father in law and they to are water proof and very nice glass. However, they have been discontinued so you really have to do a internet search. When they were new they ran around $400 but last year Cabelas had them on closeout at $170.

 

AC

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2006 at 17:54
Bird Watcher View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1490
AC,

Thanks for your help with the Swift's. It's good to know that the problem was not throughout the entire line. I've heard good things about them (probably from you on another thread) and I like both the 44mm and the ED glass.

It would be great to be able to find some Bushnell Discoverers, TODAY, for $170.


Edited by Bird Watcher
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2006 at 18:26
nksmfamjp View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/06/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 102

I really want to say, thanks for your help on this even though this post has gone round and round.  I think I have some good direction.

 

BTW, were the Swift's that leaked the current 820's?  Also, what did Swift do to support this issue? 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2006 at 18:46
Tero View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/04/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 135
The Nikons Monarch at 36mm and 42 mm will be very similar. If you want more brightness, go for 42, if more FOV, go for 36.

Consider yourdelf lucky that you could not tell the difference. Now you do not have to spend 1400.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/25/2006 at 20:09
Bird Watcher View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1490
I think it was koshkin that put out the warning about consumer complaints around the Swift binoculars and waterproofing problems.

You could either try and send him a PM, or, contact Swift by e-mail, and see what they are willing to share with you.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2006 at 12:59
lucznik View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: November/27/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1436

Originally posted by Bird Watcher Bird Watcher wrote:

First of all, I think that you probably fall into that large percentage of consumers who experience the very same thing, when comparing binocular optics inside of a store, under artifical lighting. (Looking through optics, inside a building, has very limited value.)

 

Binoculars need to be tested outdoors, as no one purchases them to use inside a building. (Indoor testing would have to be quite extensive and varied, and retail businesses are not set up to provide such things.)

Binoculars should be compared/tested under cloudy skies, at dawn and at dusk, and into the darkness, as these are the types of conditions that they will be used for, in the field. This is when you WILL begin to SEE the differences between optical glass, optical coatings, differences in prism types and prism sizes, and the differences between objective apertures from 30-44mm that you mentioned.

 

I both agree and disagree with this statement.

 

To begin with, it is my experience that individuals who are new to optics often cannot see the differences between specific units at all, no matter the lighting conditions. This is not offered as an insult to anyone, just an observation that it takes time, experience, and education to begin to see these things. If you are not going to use your binoculars more than a couple of times a year, you can buy the "lesser" models and never know the difference.  If you will be using your optics with relative frequency, it will not take you long to begin to be able to see those differences.

 

Secondly, comparing optics indoors is not as bad as is sometimes suggested.  Sure it isn't a panacea but, nothing is. What you are able to see is how the binoculars compare under the specific light conditions available. This is true no matter where/when you are making your comparison.  Comparing optics outside and under cloudy skies does not, for example, tell you how they will handle glare during a bright day nor how well they will handle early morning and twilight hours. Comparable limitations will exist no matter where/when you choose to do your testing and the only solution is to find a way to run a comparison with every possible lighting condition likely to be encountered before buying.  (Good luck with that. )

 

I have been able to use indoor lighting very successfully to identify differences in optical performance between binoculars. It is not difficult. Actually it is sometimes preferable to going outside especially if it is a sunny day, as in the daylight, even compact binoculars sometimes look like they can compete with bigger glass.  At least indoors it will generally be dim enough that you will be able to see the added brightness the full sized glass offers. Again, no test environment is a panacea.

 

The real problem comes when people try to look through one binocular in a store and then another outside at mid-day and perhaps a third during the waning hours of twilight on an overcast day and then try to draw some legitimate conclusions and comparisons about the relative qualities/limitations of the three.  Vastly more important than where/when you compare optics is that you compare them together at the same time and place so that the lighting is the same for each of them and so that you are making "apples to apples" comparisons.

 

 

   



Edited by lucznik
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2006 at 13:16
Bird Watcher View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1490
lucznik,

Thanks, I was hoping that you would be back soon after the holiday.

My resources are too limited.


Edited by Bird Watcher
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2006 at 19:39
nksmfamjp View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/06/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 102

Thanks lucznik.  I appreciate the response.  I do truly use my binoculars about 1 week a yearr regularrly and then just every now and again checking on the deer on the way home from work.  Maybe that is where I don't have the experience to know what I'm missing.  I'm trying to educate myself because I want to see more deer before they see me.  I haave been using binoculars like this for about 20 years.  I was using about $50 binoculars for 1/2 of that time.  Then I got some 10 x 50 Pentax porros about 10 years ago.  They were an eye opener.  They broke recently.  Now I'm looking to replacee and maybe slightly upgrade.

 

I do realize the big three make a better product.  For many these are probably a great deal for their uses.  I was haveing trouble seeing a $1200 difference.  I can clearly see the difference between $100 and $400.  Now I've settled on this list of what can be found in my range and look good enough to me upon review.  I have not been able to review either of the porro's, but I'm leaning towards roofs for their compactness.

 

Then I read that $400 roof are about like $150 porros. . .While, I would disagree, as far as I can tell.  I do still agree that for the money porros usually represent the greater optical value while roofs have an advantage as far as handiness(nice bino term, huh?) and waterproofness.

 

So far, I have been most impresseed with the Bushnell Discoverers which I tried out.  They just looked and felt like high dollar glass to me.  That maybe a sign of my ignorance buying discontinued binos.  Why were they discontinued?  I usually find that related to models crossing over target audiences, but I see that Bushnell has left a hole in their product line from ~$400 - $1000 by eliminating the Discoverer.  When compared to like pricee binos it seems to have a good specification.   

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2006 at 20:52
Acenturian View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: September/07/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 543

The Bausch and Lomb Poro Discoverer is discontinued (awsome glass for the money) but as far as I know Bushnell still makes the Bushnell Discoverer 10x42 listed here on this sites store for $383.95.  Also you may want to check this sites "Sample List" they have trade in's or demo models and the mark down is pretty good.  Example I was looking really hard at the Kahles 10x42 list price here is $818.95  (which is still cheaper than anywhere else I found, one place had them listed at close to a $1,000) then I found some on the sample list at $599.95. Which in my opinion for high end glass made in Austria that is a heck of a buy.

 

Now I know that is more that you were looking at, my point is not to talk you into Kahles (although very very nice ) butto give an example on how much you can save going (a) to this store and (b) shopping off the sample list.

 

Also, if Bushnell's roof prism Discoverer is anything like its predicessor the Bausch & Lomb Poro Discoverer they will be very nice binoculars that will serve you well.

 

AC

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2006 at 21:57
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10978
I do not know if Swift truly fixed the waterproofing issue, but I have not heard any complaints about the seals of currently manufactured (last year or so) Swift binos.  Optically, 8.5x44 Audubons are spectacular.  Their center field resolution is as good as any binocular out there at any price.

Now, if you want a top notch binocular you do not have to spend two grand.  For the vast majority of us there is really no need to drop that much money, especially since good binoculars keep on appearing for less money.  Minox has been impressing the heck out of me lately.  Their HG series is superb for under a grand and most people will not see any difference between Minox HG and Zeiss/Leica/Swaro.  I can see it, but only under pretty challenging conditions and only when I look for it.  Minox porros are great as well.

Nikon LXL binos are truly excellent as well and are, I think, in a similar price range with Minox HG.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2006 at 22:16
Roy Finn View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Steiner Junkie

Joined: April/05/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4856
Koshkin, what difference can be seen between the HG and the big 3? Is it slight?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2006 at 22:20
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10978
Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Koshkin, what difference can be seen between the HG and the big 3? Is it slight?


Yes it is very slight.  In normal use I would not be able to see any difference.  I can see the difference (very little of it) when looking at resolution charts and during night time observation with two strong off-zxis light sources in front of the binocular and behind me.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2006 at 08:45
nksmfamjp View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/06/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 102

I was wrong about the Discoverer series being discontinued.  It appears that only the 7x42.  I like that magnification for my use though.

 

Koshkin,

Thank you for the detail info for telling the difference between the Minox HG and big three.  Are the Minox porros also close, or closer to the list of good sub $400 glass that I posted.

 

Also, any others on the list of noteworthiness?  It seems like the Swft's are the best performers optically, but the Discoverer may be better for hunting due to size, durability and waterproofness.  How about the Pentax? 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2006 at 11:58
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10978
For my personal use I would probably take Minox porros over any binocular onthe list.  Only the Audubons can compete with Swifts optically, and I think Minox are built tougher and sealed better. 

Also, if you do not mind individually focusing eyepieces, Fujinon Polaris (FMTR-SX) binoculars have absolutely stunning glass for the money.  I've been trying to set up a comparison between Minox porros and Fujis, but not time yet.  Fuji is my go to binocular though.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2006 at 13:12
lucznik View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: November/27/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1436
Originally posted by nksmfamjp nksmfamjp wrote:

 

Then I read that $400 roof are about like $150 porros. . .While, I would disagree, as far as I can tell.  I do still agree that for the money porros usually represent the greater optical value...

 

Actually, I would tend to agree with that comparison of roof to porro prices vs. value. (At least, generally speaking.)  The super cheapo Tascos, Bushnells, Simmons, etc. are of course, worthless but, once you jump to the $100+ mark and are dealing with quality instruments like Nikon Action Extremes, Pentax PCF WP IIs, Bushnell Legends, etc. you really do get many times the optical quality for much less $$$$. Of course, the trade off is that the porro prism binocular is going to be much larger, heavier, etc.

 

Originally posted by nksmfamjp nksmfamjp wrote:

So far, I have been most impresseed with the Bushnell Discoverers which I tried out.  They just looked and felt like high dollar glass to me... Why were they discontinued?    

 

As has already been pointed out, only the porro prism B&L Discoverer was discontinued. I have one in 10x42 (it was also made in an 8x42 configuration) and it is a superb binocular. I would imagine that only a few people at Bushnell can give the authoritative/definitive reason for it being discontinued but, I can venture a guess.  This binocular retailed for a bit over $400 (putting it into the same class as the current Minox porro offerings) and it is worth every penny.  The problem is, this is a rough spot in the market for a porro to try to hold. For $400 there are a lot of very good roof prism binoculars available and they will all be smaller, lighter, more compact, and more comfortable to pack around.  They are certainly not as good optically as the porro prism binocular but, (as I already mentioned) most people won't be able to initially see those differences. What's more, those who do will often still choose to sacrifice that little bit of optical quality for the convenience of the smaller roof prism package.  Heck, if it were strictly a function of optical quality, no one would ever buy Swarovski ELs, Zeiss FLs, Leica Ultravids, etc. Why, do you ask? Because both Zeiss and Swarovski make super-premium ($1000+) porro prism binoculars that put those others to shame. How many of them have you seen lately, though?  Not many, if any I would bet.  I would even dare venture that 95+% of the optics consumers in the world are blissfully unaware of their very existence.

 

Porros seem to do pretty well in the $100 - $200 range where their optical advantages tend to be more obvious and the budget-conscious consumer tends to be more willing to accept the greater size of the porro prism design. Jump to the "high-dollar" arena for porros however, and they have a much harder "row to hoe" to make the sale.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2006 at 19:30
Bird Watcher View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1490
koshkin and lucznik,

Do either of you know if there is any connection between the Swift 8.5x44 and the Kowa Genesis 8.5x44 binocular. Does the Swift come out of Japan?

Have either of you heard anything about the Kowa mid-range to top-of-the-line binoculars?

The Genesis 10.5x44 costs around $1,400.
The Genesis 8.5x44 costs around $1,260.


Edited by Bird Watcher
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2006 at 21:16
Acenturian View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: September/07/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 543

Bird Watcher:

I don't know if there is any connection between the Kowa genesis or the Swift Audubon, but yes, my Swifts were made in Japan.

 

 

AC

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2006 at 21:51
Bird Watcher View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: August/30/2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1490
Great...Thanks!
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Tell the Difference"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Differences between Swarovski SLC and EL Binocular Skylar McMahon Binoculars 28
Weaver Kaspa 3-12x44 differences? nateh Rifle Scopes 0
Difference between cameras with good optic zoom... qpalzm Cameras, Equipment and Settings 43
Any noticeable difference in Leupold VX1 and VX2 tpcollins Rifle Scopes 2
Difference betweenZenith & Klassik Whale Rifle Scopes 3
Scope difference qpalzm Spotting Scopes 5
Dear Mr. Koshkin...Please tell Vortex R H Clark Rifle Scopes 13
Can anyone tell me what this is? Timboslice Tactical Scopes 17
can anyone tell me about the Boone and Crockett nightowl Rifle Scopes 1
what can you tell me about this swarovski geoff23 Spotting Scopes 0


This page was generated in 0.281 seconds.