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Talk me off the ledge (Trijicon MRO), or push me

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 19:18
eagle1776 View Drop Down
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Folks,

Looking for your experience and advice here.  First time poster.

I own a few different rifles in various calibers (5 AR-15s; 2 bolt action; 1 lever action), plus handguns in different calibers.  All of my rifles have either a scope (brands I own are: Leupold, Nikon, Vortex), or just use iron sights for very short distances.

My dilemma started when I bought a Trijicon MRO and mounted it on one of my LWRC AR-15s based on friends' advice and a lot of online reviews - I just can't seem to use it effectively [meaning, after zeroing it, I can't really make accurate shots at 25 yds.]  Now to be honest my eyesight is not that great, however both my contact lenses or my eyeglasses are current on my latest prescription which is the right one for me.

I shoot mostly paper targets and do fine with the scopes I have and but I really find 25 yards far away to make accurate shots with either just irons or the Trijicon MRO:

--> Am I asking too much of the MRO?  Is it best suited only for CQB distances like 7, 10 yards and that's all?

--> Is it possible to zero this thing in a way that it works for various short distances? Or am I stuck with one single distance that I zeroed it for?

--> My tendency is to think that thousands can't be wrong when they sing the praises of this Optic, and that the problem is me, but is there something I am missing big time?

--> Or would a plain Bushnell TRS-25 do just as well? I paid over $450 for this thing!

Your help is much appreciated!

Eagle
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 19:27
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Welcome to Optics Talk.

This is a VERY Trijicon friendly zone your in, Friend. Have a nice trip off the ledge. Wink 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 19:45
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I understand a ton of folk out there love the MRO; my question is more if I'm expecting it to do something it's not supposed to (in which case the answer might be "go get a scope"). Hiding
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 20:24
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Well, I shoot my SBR with an Aimpoint Micro on it.  I have shot it accurately out to 500 yards with the 2 moa dot.  Granted that was off a rest, but I would think at 25 yards it should be accurate enough.

What are you considering accurate?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 21:04
eagle1776 View Drop Down
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bullseye at 25 yds or consistent 2" or less groupings 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 21:09
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How are you shooting at 25 yards?
How accurate are you with other optics (or irons) at 25 yards in the same shooting style?
Who zeroed your MRO?
What are your group sizes at 25 yards with MRO?
What are they with other?
What dot size?
Has the rifle performed better with same ammo, same shooting style, and different - or no - optic?

That is a start.

I am hella good at diagnosing problems with no information down, especially when I do not have to deal with any consequences of being wrong.

For reference, my favorite SBR wears an Aimpoimt T1 and at 25 yards, with a 10.5 barrel, all rounds are touching. A 2 MOA dot at 25 yards covers 0.5 inches of target (diameter) so, with a bullet 0.222 inches in diameter, I would expect a group of maybe 0.75 inches at most, if I do my part.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 21:10
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Originally posted by eagle1776 eagle1776 wrote:

bullseye at 25 yds or consistent 2" or less groupings 


That is what you get or that is what you want and are not getting?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 21:36
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with scopes (different scopes; different rifles) that is what I get (scopes always; never got that with iron sights)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2016 at 21:39
eagle1776 View Drop Down
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@Rancid - thank you sir.  

here my answers to your questions:

How are you shooting at 25 yards? - with the scopes mostly from a rest (best results)
How accurate are you with other optics (or irons) at 25 yards in the same shooting style? - I'm not great at all with irons; on the other hand, with any of my scopes at 25 yds, I get excatly what i want (bullseye or around 2" groups)
Who zeroed your MRO? - I did
What are your group sizes at 25 yards with MRO? - I didn't measure, but they were surely 5" or more; truly "all over the place"
What are they with other? - I haven't used any other red dot; just the MRO (I don't have another red dot); but I have gotten great groupings with any of my scopes with different rifles and calibers 
What dot size? - I think I used 3 and 4
Has the rifle performed better with same ammo, same shooting style, and different - or no - optic? - I didn't perform better with iron sights; but I didn't get as far as removing the MRO and putting a put a scope on the gun 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 04:27
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Start out by figuring out if someone else can do better with the same rifle.  Find someone who you know to be a competent shot and have him shoot your rifle with the MRO on it.  Prior to that, make sure that the mount fits your rail properly and the sight is not moving on the rail (or the sight is not loose on its mount).

If the other person is having similar problems, there is a problem with the optic of with the rifle.

Virtually all modern rifles should be capable of good accuracy at 25 yards and LWRCs are good guns.  At 25 yards, you should be sub-inch.

Yank the MRO off, set-up a magnified scope of some sort that you know to be good and figure out how accurate the rifle really is.  If the accuracy is equally terrible with the magnified scope, there is a problem with the gun.

If it is accurate with the scope and not with the MRO, send it back to Trijicon for warranty service.

Generally, I field a lot of questions on optics and when there is an accuracy problem, 9 out 10 times it is either the shooter or the loose mount.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 09:06
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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I agree, a little trouble-shooting (no pun intended) will do a long way toward solving the problem.  It could be shooter, it could be gun, it could be mount, and it could be optic.

If it is 5 inches at 25 yards, that is horrendous and I agree there is a significant problem.

Let us know what the troubleshooting yields.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 11:21
eagle1776 View Drop Down
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Good advice; thank you.

I will use a  Leupold VX-3 I have mounted on a LaRue QD mount, and I can easily set it up on the LWRC in place of the MRO.

Let's see how that goes.  Appreciate the insightful advice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 14:05
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Also are you shooting decent ammo?  sometimes crap ammo will shoot really crappy.  Bucky  Also if your LWRC has a 7" twist barrel and you are shooting really light bullets 55 grain or lighter (especially the lighter) it could cause lots of problems. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 15:19
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Are you focusing on the dot or the target?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 15:22
eagle1776 View Drop Down
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Yes, I'm shooting decent ammo.  Never lighter than 55 gr.  The barrel of my LWRC is 16" long with a 1:7 twist rate.

In addition to removing the Trijicon MRO and putting a magnified scope on my next trip to the range, I guess I could also mount the MRO on a rifle that I have shot longer with and know its accuracy.

Bottom line is: I was never out to disprove the MRO or anything of that sort; simply I wondered if I am expecting it to do something it;s not supposed to do - and that woudl not be a fair expectation on my part.  However by everyone's answers so far, it seems the MRO can be accurate even at distances greater than 25 yds.

If in the end the MRO behaves as it should, then maybe it's an 'Indian not the arrow' type of deal.  Then I may find that I'm probably better of with a good old scope.  But with the 'whole world' saying how great the MRO is, I should be doing better than I am accuracy wise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 15:27
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I don't know that the whole world is saying how great the MRO is.  I asked about it a few months back and very few had hands on one at that time.  I have seen them around now, a few times, but not used one enough to have an opinion.

If a damned Aimpoint would die, I might try one; but Aimpoints run seemingly forever, so I have not yet had reason to buy a MRO.

From a supported position at 25 yards, it should be a one-holer - assuming your marksmanship skills are okay and you have a sufficiently well defined aiming point on paper.

Let us know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 19:35
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I also use an aimpoint often and compact ACOG's often.  I  have not used the MRO.   I would expect the MRO to be very similar in use to an aimpoint  2 MOA would be 2 inches at 100 yds or 1 in at 50 yds or 1/2 in at 25 yds.  With a sight that puts a 1/2 in dot on a 25 yd target I would expect better than a 1 inch group.  What mount are you using?  On a bench rest using sandbags there should be no reason that you should be getting a 5 inch group.  One of the first things I would do though if I had a 1 in 7 twist barrel is shoot 68, or 75 or 77 gr ammo what ever I could find with the 77gr Sierra Matchking being the preferred choice.  I much prefer the compact ACOG scopes over a dot.  I would probably trade it toward this and put this in a La Rue  RCO mount to bring it all the way back. 
Trijicon 2x20 Compact Acog Rifle ScopeTrijicon 2x20 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA47C400151
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2016 at 23:09
eagle1776 View Drop Down
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The mount I used is a Trijicon MRO specific mount: Trijicon MRO Low Mount, Black AC32067

You threw a new twist in the discussion with the suggestion of the ACOG - I am not familiar with them, and on the basis of price alone have never looked into or considered one.  How would you describe the way it performs? Like a riflescope with red and/or green illuminated arrows?  Does it behave closer to a scope, or to a red dot?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2016 at 08:35
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Scope, definitely.

Figure out the MRO before you move on to something else.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2016 at 10:38
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I was wearing out a 4" steel popper target with my MRO on my 8" 300 Blackout at 300 yards a while back. I switched from an Aimpoint Micro to the MRO. The Field Of View is much larger on the MRO. If the MRO is why you are getting the groups that you are it is definitely messed up and not normal.



Edited by Chris Farris II - April/13/2016 at 10:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2016 at 14:42
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@CF2 - 300 yds? and you could see both the red dot and the target?? Shocked  

My contacts and eyeglasses Rx is current and I am sure I could not get anywhere near that... Or maybe my indoor range lighting is that poor and I just didn't know it...??? Shocked

I was (and am not) in no rush to blame the MRO, but now I just can't wait to get back to the range and re-test... Either  that or I will just have to accept the MRO is not for me and I should get a 20X scope with a 50mm objective (!) Sad Pacer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2016 at 14:49
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It's not the easiest thing in the world, but If I do my part the MRO is more than capable. The AR also has a Rock Creek Stainless match barrel in it and shoots Sub MOA. I was just providing you with an example that the MROs are good optics. It is one of my favorite optics for shorty suppressed rigs that I will hardly ever engage anything past 150 yards with. Also the popper targets are way more than 4" tall.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2016 at 15:07
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I appreciate the comments and the picture of the target too; neat stuff.  

It looks like you meant 4 feet not 4 inches.  But still... very impressive nevertheless - I'd be happy if I got half the shots at half the distance you're getting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2016 at 16:27
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Originally posted by eagle1776 eagle1776 wrote:

I appreciate the comments and the picture of the target too; neat stuff.  

It looks like you meant 4 feet not 4 inches.  But still... very impressive nevertheless - I'd be happy if I got half the shots at half the distance you're getting.
I said 4" Popper. What I meant by that was 4" at the widest part. Most of what we refer to as "popper targets" here are all about 16-18" tall.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2016 at 16:51
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The view through the MRO @ 300 yards, dot next to target.
 
 
The view through the MRO @ 300 yards, dot on top of target.
 
I also took these pictures with my phone and it is even easier to see with the naked eye than it is through the phone.


Edited by Chris Farris II - April/13/2016 at 17:00
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