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Tactical scopes????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2011 at 00:05
scottb View Drop Down
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What qualifies a scope as TACTICAL? Is it the FFP or the mil dot reticle? Are the target turrets what qualifies it? Or maybe it's the illumination or the matte finish? Or maybe even the amount of adjustment? What I would really like to know is where can I get a variable scope with at least 14x magnification, FFP and mil dot reticle under $400.00 and not made in China. I don't care if it's tacticool or not and I know I'm asking for the impossible. But just maybe there's one out there covered in pixie dust and sitting on the back of a Unicorn. I'll just keep looking and saving up the $.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2011 at 14:53
Plange View Drop Down
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Hmmm, that's a helluva question. That word is thrown around at sales meetings at every optics company on earth.
To me it's reliable, repeatable, durable.
Whether it's FFP or SFP is up to you, if you have a rangefinder you most likely won't be using the reticle for ranging so you could use SFP. That goes the same with it having to have a mil reticle.
I certainly would'nt want the life of a hostage hanging on a scope that was lying in the trunk of my police car being banged around day in and day out that cost $400 bucks.
That being said their are some quality units out their that could fit your bill for just a bit more. Also you can get some good deals in the sample list area or used.
As far as finding a scope to fit your exact criteria for that money I am not sure I know of one.
What about made in the Phillipines? Or Maybe S. Korea? Would that be better than China?
I am sure others may have some ideas but none come to my mind right now.
 
Good Luck,
Paul
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2011 at 17:01
RifleDude View Drop Down
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To me, a "tactical" scope implies that it must have the following features, at minimum:
1.  Lots of elevation adjustment range.
2.  Very repeatable and accurate adjustments in either MOA or MIL increment clicks.
3.  Tall, finger actuated knobs with easy to read scales and verniers.
4.  Very durable, rock solid construction that holds zero through very hard use.
5.  Preferably has a MIL or MOA based ranging reticle; even better if the reticle and adjustments are in the same units.
6.  At least decent optics.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2011 at 19:32
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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I am going to say good luck with the China Part...


$400 bones hey... If you want more than 14x you will have to sacrifice not getting the best scope for the price which is the SWFA SS 10X...

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P500.aspx

There are other scopes that are close to all the above qualifications...



These did well in a review by someone who knows his stuff...  I have argued getting one as I did on one of his other recommendations and I wish I would have listened sooner.

http://swfa.com/Hawke-Sidewinder-Tactical-30-Riflescopes-C2859.aspx



This is close to tactical (you have to remove the covers to get at the turrets)

http://swfa.com/Vortex-65-20x44-Viper-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P13285.aspx

THE GLASS IS FANTASTIC on the Vortex Viper's (so my eyes tell me).



These have served me fairly well while they are on other peoples hate list I still have not had mine fail me and it has been up and down at least 150 times through the whole spectrum of elevation, the glass is decent and it is built like a tank I believe it is the heavies scope I own...

http://swfa.com/Falcon-Menace-Riflescopes-C3324.aspx

About China... My $.02 is pretty simple they can make decent product and are realizing they have to have a realistic price point in our economy, Meaning if you are spending $300 or more you are not getting the $50 China made crap you might be worried about getting, you are now getting something comparable to our $500+ mark if it is a reputable name. Just my opinion.  Don't crucify me for it.  I do not like buying these scopes either but I can no longer afford the higher dollars.  Also something that matters is that they are realizing they can get more business out of us by giving us a little higher quality...Peeker




Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - April/18/2011 at 19:41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2011 at 19:45
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Tactical does not equal good. A good tactical scope does the same thing, better, longer. Don't ya think if there were such an animal it would be common knowledge? ($400 etc.)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2011 at 20:18
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It's kind of an odd and overused term anymore. And one that can cover a wide variety of scopes - at least in magnification range. There are scopes in ranges like 1-4 for CQB use, intermediate scopes ranging from low ends around 2 to 3 and high ends between 7 and 12, and long-range scopes starting around 4-5X and going up as high as 25X.

Like others here I consider tactical scopes to generally be more rugged and reliable. Also they are the scopes that tend to have features that allow shooting out to longer ranges, primarily target turrets. Some sort of reticle with sub-tensions that allow estimating range is a common feature but more of a backup anymore. The exception is using the reticle or a combination of reticle and (usually) matching turrets for shot correction. The Achilles heel of reticle ranging is that the farther out you get the harder it is to correctly range, just when you need it to be the most accurate because of the drastic increase in drops. (For example, if I thought a 1-yd target spanned 1.05 mils instead of 1 mil, I'd estimate it was only 950 yards away instead of 1000 yards and my drop would be off by .9 mils or ~ 1.5 yards).

I can't think of any decent scopes under $599 new, which is the price of the SS 3-9X42. It's not uncommon for a full-featured tactical scope of decent to great quality to end up costing at least $1500.

Regarding the Chinese-made issue, I accept that some things are going to come from there whether I like it or not. If I don't have a choice I'll buy what they sell. Yet I don't think China is willing to play on a level playing field and have some concerns about Chinese attitudes towards intellectual property.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2011 at 23:09
scottb View Drop Down
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Thanks for the replies. I do see a S.S. in 10x or 16x in my future. As to the Falcon Menace, it has way too many bad reviews to even try. I already own the vortex 6.5-20x50 although with the BDC reticle, (my mistake) while I like the viper I wouldn't call the glass amazing. I recently compared it to  a leupold vxII and a vxIII and to me the glass was the same as the vxII. Maybe I should trade it in but I don't want to take a big loss. I'll have to take a look at the Hawk scopes, thanks again for all the help. S.B.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2011 at 09:10
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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One quality a good tactical scope does not necessarily possess is good glass 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2011 at 09:42
stickbow46 View Drop Down
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All good answers above.This is my version,although out of your money range it may still answer a few qustions!

I compare my Zeiss 4-16x50 Fl with Z800 ret. to the Zeiss tactical division Hensoldt 4-16x56[they don't make a 50].Both have same Fl glass but Hens.uses several more coatings on the glass,also it's a 34mm tube vs.my 30mm.Turrets on the Hens.are much beefier,have more elevation availability.There are also several add on's for the Hens.that I can't get for my scope like screw on filters,clampable ARD & eye guard to mention a few.
 
I beleive that Tactical is still more associated with military,than civilian use & that's why tactical scopes are made to withstand alot more abuse.At the same time the people in the military[snipers]can pick up just about any kind of a scope and use it in a pinch.
 
I also think LE has had a big hand in the use of the word tactical.They also have a large need for heavy duty scope,lets face it if my life was hanging by a tread I want the guy that's taking that shot to save my life to have equiptment they know will not fail them.
 
Bottom line tactical scopes are in the eye of the beholderWink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2011 at 10:02
supertool73 View Drop Down
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To me tactical just means heavy duty.  Built a little better in all the right places.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2011 at 23:57
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The term "tactical" is so overused, that it really lost any tangible meaning, so everyone means something else by it.

To me it is "tactical" means an application, with specific features optimized for that application.

The application is very straightforward.  Tactical scopes are designed for (and optimized for) shooting people.  They may be used for other purposes like hunting or target shooting, but that is not the original design purpose.  

With that definition, a lot of scopes called tactical are really not, but such is life.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2011 at 23:55
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i have a falcon menace 4-14x44 so far so good. i havent really wrung the knobs yet but the adjustments feel good and the glass is really pretty good. i can see into dimly lit areas pretty well at night and still pick up the reticle pretty well. iirc, the glass is japanese, parts are chinese and they are assembled in great britain... if that makes any sense. i have heard of a few canted reticles, and the older 56mm objective bells coming apart from the main tube, but for the most part i have heard great reviews as far as repeatability and durability goes. i'd go as far to say i will probably buy another one (5.5-25x50) to put on my custom .280 ai. the only issue i've had so far is finding somebody that has them in stock :-/
 
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