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Tactical Scope Newbie. Need help "weeding"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2011 at 23:51
Grant View Drop Down
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   Hello.      I've lurked here a long while and really like the place, lot of good advice, and reasonable scopes.
 
     My situation: I have a M14S, and I am wanting a good, but cheap (good contradiction eh? Big Grin) scope for it.     I finally joined a range that has steel plates out to 600 yards, then 800 and 1,000 yards.     I'm wanting to do a little practice, and in general try to improve my longer range marksmanship.      However it still won't be shot a HUGE amount.    Enough to experiance myself with the gun, and getting in some trigger time at longer range.
 
  Prior to this, the max "long range", I've done is practicing out to 550 yards (the farthest 12" rock we have from our private shooting area) with a 7MM Magnum and standard 4-16X regular crosshairs scope.
 
  The .308 will have more drop, and I am wanting some holdover marks.  They don't have to be "Ballistically matched", as I plan more on sighting in a bit high at 100 (VS deadon like they require) and just memorizing at what distance the bullets correspond with the marks.
 
   For the amount of shooting I will be doing, I don't want to drop $800 on a scope.    I'd like something to try out a bit at first, if I really enjoy myself, and/or really want to improve, I can upgrade later, and shuffle whatever scope I get onto another rifle.
 
 I've narrowed it down to a few choices, but was unsure as to the pro's/cons of each.
 
Bushnell Elite/Elite 3200 fixed 10X Mil-dot.   I love the two Elite 3200's I have now, great scopes.  However fixed 10X is a bit big for any hunting I would do, and I kinda hate getting a strictly target/-LR SHTF scope.
 
Bushnell Elite 3-9X40, 4-12X40 DOA 600 reticles.   I know nothing about these reticles, good? okay?  I figure these would be good for the SHTF portion of the scope, as the inner 17" hash roughly corresponds with a Torso.      But I've NEVER....seen one in person.
 
Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14-Side-Focus.    I'd probably go Mil-dot, however I was leery, as I've read that side-focus scopes are more vulnerable to the semi-auto operation of a .308 (supposedly?? tougher on scopes than a normal magnum?)
 
Weaver V Series 2.5-10X Mil Dot.    Will they stand up to a semi-auto .308?   I'm a bit leery of the V series.   I had a 1-3XV go out in less than 200 rounds  and 2 months on an AK-47.  Now Weavers CS was GREAT and I had a brand new scope in less than 2 weeks.  I ain't had a chance to use the replacement much and "settle" it in my mind.
 
Leupold VX2, 3-9X40 and 4-12X40 LR duplex.   A big step up in price, however to me, the VX-2 Leupold glass is....good...but not worth THAT much extra money?  However they do have a great warrenty.
 
Burris Fullfield II 3-9X40 Ballistic Plex.  A good cheap, supposedly tough scope.    I like dad's original Fullfield, but the two new FF2's I've seen don't seem......quite as clear?    I dunno.  Tough to tell in a store.
 
Any help would be much appreciated Big Grin  I'm clueless, as our local stores go: Tasco=$29.99, to "Nikon Prostaff, regular plex-$160" to "Leupold VX3  $600).    Not much in hash marks, BDC, mid-range scopes,etc.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2011 at 09:36
Bitterroot Bulls View Drop Down
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A fixed 10x can be used for hunting, in a pinch. A fixed 10x makes for a good LR training scope, which I gather is the primary purpose of this rifle, as you said you also have a variable mounted on a 7mm.  This would be a great value for you:

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P499.aspx

If you want one that you can still shoot long range with, but makes a better 50/50 target hunting scope, this one will work:

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-6x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P47326.aspx

I have both, and easily recommend them.

This would be just about perfect for everything you want to do, if you can swing the dough:

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P41044.aspx

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2011 at 10:57
jonoMT View Drop Down
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Unfortunately, whether you shoot one round a year or 1000, you need a reliable scope with good glass (expensive) to get out that far. It's fun to try to get out to distances like 1000 and all, but if you can't afford a scope that does everything you want right now I'd drop that requirement. I'd rather be good out to 600 yards with a scope I know is rock solid. Think about it. That's a g-d long ways off as it is. And most of the people you know will never even be that good or practiced.

Another thing to consider is wind. If I had to pick the guy shooting alongside me it would be the one who went to the range under the crappiest conditions possible and could hit at 300 every time. That's better than being able to hit @ 1000 on a sunny, windless day. I'd also say the SS 3-9 is the way to go.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2011 at 15:34
jjrgr21 View Drop Down
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i have a SS 10X on my 308, and have no problem @1k, well worth $300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2011 at 19:24
Grant View Drop Down
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   I appreciate the responses.   
 
Thing is, I'm kinda ashamed Clown I'm a scope newbie.  Up until a few years ago, most all of my Scopes were Tasco's(all World class)....   I had good luck with them.   Of the dozen I had, none had major problems. One with walleye vision, and one with a yellowish tint.       The scope being replaced on my M14 is a 4-16 World Class, over 400 rounds and the zero hasn't budged. 
 
Now that said: Yes, I do believe they are second from bottom barrel (UTG and NCStar being worse), I believe my lack of problems was because I wasn't constantly moving the crosshairs, (which is a large percentage of complaints) and all were Taiwanese made, before they moved to mainland China.    However they were USED, I refuse to baby a scope, and alot of them were left in the corner of a tractor cab while in rough fields, or strapped on a ATV.   
 
    I'm in the process of swapping them out, which is one reason I was thinking of a "mid-price-range" scope to use until I could afford a good one.    I have a few rifles that don't need a $300 scope on them, and that's where I was planning on putting the upcoming scope purchase.
 
  However in light of your advice I might just save a bit, and not plan on swapping out the scope later, just wait until I can get a good scope and LEAVE it on the M14.
  
  Always appreciate the advice, and if there's anything else I'm glad to hear it Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2011 at 00:50
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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My economy LR scope is a Mueller APT 4.5-14 (30 mm tube and external target turrets).  Mildot reticle. I have four of these scopes and so far they have all worked great for me.  Cost is under $200 and they have enough internal adjustment in drop and drift to satisfy me.  Ok, I let the secret out-I use Mueller scopes and they have worked good for me to date.

In several weeks there will be at least 4 rigs with these very scopes on them shooting five shot groups on paper at 500, 750, and 1000 yards.
They are little short on eye relief for my uses, and to get correct Mil spacing you have to be at 10x (I would prefer 14x).  Those are my two, "I wish they were different" issues.  For the money I think it is a good bang for your buck.
Ernie
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2011 at 07:31
captainjoe View Drop Down
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You might consider the new Weaver tactical 3-15x50 mil/mil FFP EMDR. It is reported that it is very good glass for the money:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=911627

You can read a couple of 'informal' reviews here:

http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=536538
http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2011 at 07:34
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Oops! Meant to post the SWFA link for the Weaver: http://swfa.com/Weaver-3-15x50-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P49448.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2011 at 18:00
Grant View Drop Down
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  Youch!    I know it ain't as expensive as some, but for $740, it'd better be a good scope!
 
Although...it does look goodCool    Definately something to save forward to.
 
    Think I'll save a little bit and get the 10X fixed SS, and see how I like the long-range stuff.  If I really get into it I'll drop some coin on a variable/higher power/upper scope.
 
Thanks again for the help guys. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2011 at 09:19
jjrgr21 View Drop Down
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you wont regret it, i have mine on an el-cheapo savage, and was popping golf balls at 125 yesterday.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 18:26
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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You need to decide do you want hold over marks like
Horus 4-16x50 Raptor 30mm Rifle Scope H25 Reticle Horus 4-16x50 Raptor 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - HOROJ0254N
  • Matte
  • H25 Reticle
  • 30mm
  • 1st Focal Plane
  • Side Focus
$839.95
SPL13365 Zeiss 6.5-20x50 Conquest Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view 5214509973, Matte, Rapid Z 1000, 1"
$799.95
SPL12849 Zeiss 4.5-14x44 Conquest Rifle Scope DEMO-B
Click to view 5214309972, Matte, Rapiz Z 800, 1"
$599.95


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/10/2011 at 18:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 18:28
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Or do you want tactical knobs like
SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope Mil-Dot SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS10X42M
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 1/4 MOA
$399.95 
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope Mil-Dot SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
$599.95


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/10/2011 at 18:29
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2011 at 14:03
Grant View Drop Down
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  I truly don't know.   I think I'll go with the knobs (for now) and concentrate on making consistant hits out to 600 yards.   The ol' .308 will have more drop than 120 grain 7mm bullet Big Smile   Give me a little more experiance on ranging and being consistant.
 
     In the end, holdover would be nice, VS twisting turrets, however I think it'll all depend, mebbe I won't enjoy the long-range shooting enough to warrent buying a more expensive scope....
 
nah, I'm already into Competition handgun, target handgun, CCW handgun, hunting rifle, EBR rifle, rifle hunting,etc. Shotgun.....I don't think there's ANYTHING I ain't into Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2011 at 00:23
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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I think I could find you a different disciplineBandito
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2011 at 08:18
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Well from that list its about time you jumped into a tactical scope. I would go directly to one of these and for a very limited time there is a huge discount on the 5-20 through Snipers Hide group buy but it will be a very short 30 day deal and I'm not sure when its over. :
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42MQ
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Mil-Quad
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
$599.95
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Matte Black Hard Anodized
  • First Focal Plane Illuminated Mil-Quad
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,499.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2011 at 08:45
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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http://www.opticstalk.com/extensive-swfass-group-buy-incredible-savings_topic28845.html  that one has the standard mildot not the new reticle but its quite a deal with the AR type mount included and there is a very limited time deal on the 5-20 ,

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/13/2011 at 08:47
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