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Tactical Scope for a 7.62/.308 AR Platform

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2013 at 03:37
RemuvB4Flt View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I've been "lurking" and learning around here for a while.  Thanks to all for the great info and education you have provided so far. Excellent

I have a new Sig 716 with a 16" barrel (very nice rifle so far) and need help selecting an optic for it.  I envision this in a MBR/DMR role; i.e., acquire near range (0-200 yrds) targets rather rapidly and still take advantage of some of the range of this .308.  (Also, I have a 5.56 with an Eotech that I can use for the closer target sets as well). 

I'm know this type of question is asked often so I hope to give you enough info to tailor it to my specific situation.  Here are some thoughts...
  • Intended use: Range/target shooting (couple times a month), not currently a hunter but may try it on hogs in the future, possible 3 gun shoots, defense, and other EOTWAWKI scenarios
  • Budget: Sub-1K (preferably in the $700-$800 range)
  • Range: Current target range I shoot at is limited to 300 yrds.   I live in FL so I suspect the longest distances would be mid-range (500-600 yrds. max.)
  • Desired Features (in priority): illuminated reticle, FFP, matching knob and reticle (prefer MOA...the math seems easier to me since i tend to think in inches), uncapped turrets  
  • Magnification: Prefer a variable...1-X or variable up to about 12x 
ACOG is out due to $$$ and I would really like more magnification. (I have older eyes so more is sometimes better)  I have thought about mounting a second optic; i.e., a canted red dot for close in targets.
Some of the optics on my short list -
  • Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP -new and limited feedback so far
  • SS HD 1-6x24 - may not be enough mag. for targets and no telling when these will actually ship.
  • SS HD 1-4x24 FFP - may not be enough mag. for targets 
  • Leupold 2.5-8x36 Mark 4 MR/T 
  • Trijicon Accupoint 2.5-10x56 (green dot)
What did I miss ? Recommendations/thoughts?  
Thanks for the help!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2013 at 03:53
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Optics GrassHopper
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Sorry just noticed the other category...this should probably be over in tactical scopes. Please move as needed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2013 at 06:04
jselsor View Drop Down
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I would say the super sniper 3-9 power is a perfect match and within your budget or a leupold vx 3 with cds
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2013 at 14:22
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Optics GrassHopper
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Does the SS 3-9 only come in Mil/Mil or is there a MOA version?

Also, am I restricting in magnification should I go higher up to a 16x, 20x, etc.?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2013 at 20:54
jselsor View Drop Down
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The magnification is up to you. I base it off the targets I'm shooting at. I shoot steal targets at 600+ yards with a 10x ss but if you want to try an shoot tight groups at paper targets (which gets boring) you may want a higher mag. For my ar 10 I went with a vortex viper pst 4-16x50 wich gives me the best of both worlds at a reasonable price. If money weren't an option I would go with the ss 5-20. A variable scope makes the rifle dual purpose and not one dementtional.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 00:43
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Optics GrassHopper
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@jselsor...Appreciate the advice!
I really don't want to restrict myself to punching holes/groups in paper.  I am definitely looking to make this multi-dimensional hence my leaning toward the variable 2.5-10x.  My thoughts were to keep it as close as possible to 1x on the low end for quick closer targets and not to go too far overboard on the high end since most of the shots will be 500-600 yards max, normally 300 yards.  However, I'm cautious about trying to make this platform perform too many roles that it never excels at my limited mission set (if that makes sense).

How do you like your Vortex Viper PST? The Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP was my front runner going into this.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 07:41
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Well I don't have my pst in hand yet. Just ordered it however I own several other vortex optics that's I am very happy with! The viper 2-10 of SS 3-9 are great options for ya. You could always do a mini red dot on a 45drgree pic mount for super close target acquisition. They work pretty good. I have one on an 5.56 AR.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 07:52
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The 3-9x SS as a great recommendation. 

Welcome to Optics Talk. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 09:12
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Originally posted by jselsor jselsor wrote:

The magnification is up to you. I base it off the targets I'm shooting at. I shoot steal targets at 600+ yards with a 10x ss but if you want to try an shoot tight groups at paper targets (which gets boring) you may want a higher mag. For my ar 10 I went with a vortex viper pst 4-16x50 wich gives me the best of both worlds at a reasonable price. If money weren't an option I would go with the ss 5-20. A variable scope makes the rifle dual purpose and not one dementtional.
 
jselsor
I wish our range allowed steel targets, but many do not, so a lot of us are stuck at "boring." Big Smile
 
So let's talk about your SS10x when you do shoot paper at 100, 200yds. For instance, have you done load development? Can you feel confident the 10x scope would give you the ability to shoot the groups as tight as possible ( 100, 200yds ) and make critiques of the accuracy of one load over another?
 
Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 16:59
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Welcome.
 
I'd have to concur that for the money and uses listed the SS 3-9 would be very hard to beat.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 17:14
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  i think you need to modify your wants. what your looking for that would be optimal,is a 1-16(the higher end depending on the size of the target further out),in SFP(yep) with a true daylight visible small center dot,small hold-overs specific for your caliber,a ranging reticle at the same time with maybe detents between lowest and highest magnification and memorize the math,turrets with as much adjustment not going over one turn,with repeatable adjustments and of course holds zero,within your price range and not going over at least 25 oz but less would be even better.
 
  that just doesn't exist and would weigh at least 50 oz.. with current optics technology,that can't be done and not just because of the zoom ratio,you'd need some spectacular lense coatings too. it would need to be made in china's china(if china has a china like we do) to keep the price down,so you can forget holding zero for very long,LOL.
 
  the 3 major groups of wants for shooting desires that conflict with each other are: 3 gun,..defense and EOTWAWKI,...and everything else.
 
  if you forget about 3-gun you should get the ss 1-6 and do your best,..or get the vortex 2.5-10x32 and get as good as possible at 2.5x with both eyes open up close. (..or you could save more $$ and get both with good mounts or get the bushnell SMRS 1-8.5 but you still need to forget about 3-gun unless you want to be the slowest there)
 
  1-10,1-8.5/8 do exist but are out of your price range and even if you get one they're still not optimal for everything you mention either because of a tiny EP at 1x,not true daylight visible,have a less than optimal reticle or placement of reticle.
 
  i was going to post something short and ended up with this,lol.  but anyway,yeah,we all want/wish everything in one scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 17:21
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  the ss 3-9 would be a good compromise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 17:46
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Welc0me to the OT!
 
+5 SS 3-9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2013 at 23:42
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All...Thanks for the insights and "edjamacation;" keep it coming!  This would be my first more expensive/"complex" scope.  I'm much more familiar with Eotechs, red dots, or a simple SFP 3-9x with just crosshairs (holdover and Kentucky windage).  

Does the SS 3-9x have an illuminated reticle? (I didn't see it listed)  

Also, since it is mil/mil not moa, are  milrads & mil-quad reticle easy to use/learn?

@jselsor... Great minds think alike. I was contemplating mounting an additional 45°red dot (Burris Fast Fire or the like)

@priler...I was worried that I was asking too much out of one optic.  Hopefully, a canted red dot might help reduce the duties of the primary optic.  Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.  LOL!  I would like some clarification though: you wrote "the 3 major groups of wants for shooting desires that conflict with each other are: 3 gun,..defense and EOTWAWKI,...and everything else." Aren't those roles somewhat alike, I mean fast acquisition of targets in near-mid distances (<300 yards).  BTW when I say defense, I don't mean in-house HD; I mean more like perimeter HD. Also, 3-gun might be a pipe dream.  I don't know of any ranges around here that have competitions.

Thanks!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2013 at 00:01
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IfCut I put a secondary 45 ° red dot on it, any further suggestions for the primary?  Still SS 3-9X?

Any inputs for QD mounts?  LaRue or BoBro? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2013 at 20:00
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  i separated those 3 because what's best for 3-gun has gravitated over the years to having a reticle that doesn't change size and not that big with holds and a dot you can see in strong sunlight begining with both eyes open and enough mag for down range preferably without adjustment but if you need to adjust,it needs to be fast. they already know the ranges and size of targets. if you stand there thinking about anything,..tick,tock,tick,tock.  you can use something else but if you really get into it,you'll eventually buy again.
  for me,defense and shtf type stuff/thinking in magnified optics means tough,repeatable with both eyes open up close,reticle you pick up fast(black etched formost incase battery,electrics craps out),enough mag for the situation(where you are but also if necessary where you expect to go and/or travel through,example:rural vs urban),EP that's not small,no/less distortion of any kind and possibly a ranging element in the reticle(ranging skills can go away,so you need to practise. i think people overlook a LRF which are awesome and fast but there's always the possibility electrics can crap out). shtf to me also means mutiples of the main equipment you'll depend on. having said all that,i don't tend to think in those terms(specifically shtf but SD yes) but i do live in FL and hurricanes are a reality,..and also food,water,first aid,etc. and a vehicle that can travel through any type terrain can all be just as important if not more. also,i think a pistol might be better anyway,you don't want to attract attention from people or the law but that depends where you live.
  hunting can be different but there can be some of the same needs. it depends on what your hunting or shooting,the terrain and at what distances your likely to encounter the game or can sneak up on. animals have different abilities,instincts,habitats,etc. if your hunting hogs,deer,elk or shooting varmints,your needs can be a different. if you might encounter a bear,are hunting hogs or a big prize water buffalo(dangerous game) your needs can be similar to SD. hogs you can come up on fairly close with brush and undergrowth but a deer is different and possible longer distance but not all the time. elk live in certain parts of the country anyway. groundhogs are small,hard to come up on and can live in terrains that can give mirrage so you need to think about that. coyotes are not big but not tiny but they tend to be constantly on the move so you what good FOV. it goes on and on.
  generally though,a 3-9 scope is a perfect all around hunting scope but it can serve several roles,so if you want other main roles think about the reticle,FFP or SFP,type turrets,ill or not,etc.
 
  in any case,SWFA has everything you need,whether it's the ss 3-9 or not,good CS and something else that's important,you can return the scope if you done like it without too much hassle,just don't mount it until your sure.  
  i don't work for SWFA buy the way,i've bought here and many other places.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2013 at 08:05
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Optics GrassHopper
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priler...I now follow your logic. I had thought of all three of those categories as similar; i.e. "fast acquisition of targets in near-mid distances."  I now see that the "small" differences between these will actually drive the need for different scopes.     

Does the SS 3-9x have an illuminated reticle? (I didn't see it listed)  

Is it worth the $$$ to make the step up to a higher level scope, say a Nightforce NXS 2.5x10 (~$1500)?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2013 at 16:33
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I like my Viper PST 1-4 on my AR-10 Carbine.

Just sayin'
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