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SWFA vs accupoint

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 06:10
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This is my first post, and also my first complete AR rifle build.  I'm looking for an optic that is tough, has CQB/medium range (up to 400-500 meters) and LONG battery life (if it has batteries at all)  I was TOTALLY sold on the SWFA 1-4X24 until I came across the trijicon accupoint; now I'm right back to square one!  I've been working on this weapon for quite some time-buying parts as I can afford them; and want to get the best optic for my money...It also needs to have a mount offered that would see over my front sight post (or 1/3 co-witness...I think...still learning what that means...)  This weapon was planned to be my SHTF rifle, and also may end up riding in my patrol car... Thanks so much-this website has ALOT of good gear... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 06:35
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Welcome to Optics Talk! 

I think most on this forum will be favoring the SS and for good reason. 

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 06:44
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The SS offers a vastly superior, at least too me, ranging reticle, that the Accupoint doesn't offer. 
You can still run a low profile BUIS too, if you wish.

I think the Accupoint's are fine hunting optics, but I think the SS trumps it as far as a tactical optic goes.
   


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 07:19
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Quite a few Accupoints were traded in towards the SS once they came out.  Glass wise the SS wins.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 08:36
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SS 1-4X24, no question.
 
The 1-4 Accupoint is a great scope, but other than being battery-free, it has no other advantage over the SS 1-4.  Optically, they are very close.  For tactical use, the SS has better reticles and knobs and you get more for your money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 09:34
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I agree with all that has been said.  I had an Accupoint 1-4x and a SS 1-4x.  I sold the Accupoint and bought another SS 1-4x.

You do not want a mount that will allow you to see over your front sight.  You would be way to high.  If you do not have a fold down sight, you will just see your sight in your scope until you hit 3xish, then it will start to focus past it.  If it is something that will bother you, I would get a fold down front sight. 

Also you cannot co-witness with a traditional type optic.  That only works on red dot type optics.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 11:27
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Ah....nice gear Super T! Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 13:12
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Ok-sounds good...The SWFA it is...Now, to the mount...I have a set of troy BUIS, and I don't think I would mind the FSP in the view...If I'm understanding this right, the "1/3 cowitness" would show the FSP in the lower 1/3 of the view (If that's not right, please advise otherwise)...IF that type of view is possible, which mount would give it to me?

...I figured this forum would favor the SWFA...hope I didn't offend those here with the question, I just need the best-this could save my life; or maybe even someone else's out here...Thanks again!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 14:10
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Get this,
 
and then you have the mount already!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 14:16
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Originally posted by mhptrooper mhptrooper wrote:

Ok-sounds good...The SWFA it is...Now, to the mount...I have a set of troy BUIS, and I don't think I would mind the FSP in the view...If I'm understanding this right, the "1/3 cowitness" would show the FSP in the lower 1/3 of the view (If that's not right, please advise otherwise)...IF that type of view is possible, which mount would give it to me?

...I figured this forum would favor the SWFA...hope I didn't offend those here with the question, I just need the best-this could save my life; or maybe even someone else's out here...Thanks again!


Yes, the 1/3 thingy means what you said.  But it will not work like that with the SS 1-4x or any traditional scope for that matter.  That only works with red dots, like an Aimpoint or Eotech.  And what you do in that instance is put the red dot forward on your rail far enough that you can flip your rear sight up and also the front sight up.  Then if your optics dies for some reason, you can still use the irons sight right through the red dot. 

But with a traditional scope that does not work for several reasons.  So you just fold down the sight under the eye piece and if your scope breaks, you have to take the whole scope off and then flip up your rear sight.  If you look at my pictures you can see I have fold down sights on those two ARs. 

I would get the kit the SVT listed.  The Bobro mount that comes with it is very nice. 


Edited by supertool73 - June/23/2011 at 14:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 14:54
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Having owned (or still own) the following:
Trijicon 1-4X
Trijicon 3-9X
Trijicon 2.5-10X
Trijicon 5-20X
SS1-4X
SS3-9X
SS5-20X (coming soon, but not soon enough!)

I will say this, the SS line is decidedly bulkier, heavier, and more tactically-inclined.  The Trijicon optics are more than serviceable, and the 3-9  and 2.5-10X are downright great for  low-light hunting.

If we narrow the talk to just the 1-4X and just the stated purposes, consider this:

1.  The SS is FFP (reticle stays same size compared to target at any power) and the Trijicon is SFP.
2.  SS is much easier to get behind at 1X, not quite as easy at 4X; trijicon is somewhere in between at all powers.
3.  Trijicon illumination is tritium, no batteries; SS is battery.  Both are very good illumination systems.


My trijicon 1-4X is gone, replaced by an SS1-4.  I like the SS much more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 16:21
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Ok-now I'm seeing what you mean!  I would go for that deal, but I REALLY like the circle reticle...and since this may be the last piece of tactical gear I buy for a LONG time (I'm getting ready to get married) I want to get the one that I really want & just be done with it!  I don't have flip down front sights on this weapon ( i do on my other sabre) so I guess I'll just have to live with the sight post there...How much of it will show?  Anybody got any pictures?  Thanks again-this site is AWESOME!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 19:27
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I would suggest you replace the front sight with either a rail gas block or a flip up because having the front sight in the way will probably bother you.  I'm about the only one here who has not jumped on the  1-4  at this point however I will likely eventually own one just to see what all the excitement is about.  I currently run compact ACOG's on my up close under 300 yd guns and dont really feel I want tactical knobs on those.  i do really like tactical knobs on the higher power scopes and have owned most all of the Super Sniper line I guess the only one I have not owned is the  16 x and I'm quite sure i will find a need for one of those before long.  I really think I would go with covered turrets on a 1-4 to prevent rough treatment from re-adjusting my scope.  As for mounts the Bo Bro is a fine mount as is the La Rue that I am using.  I would certainly consider the deal with the mount included it is a fine choice and I actually like the offered reticle much more than the circle.  In any case its all personal preference.  I will say that I have found every one of my Super Snipers to be a far better value than what it cost.  At the same time I am definately a fan of the ACOG and compact ACOG  for a gunfight optic as you neve have to turn it on its ready to go when you fight your way to it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 19:47
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Like you, I am a big fan of the ACOG, but it's just out of my price range...but I prefer the donut reticle (like you said-personal preference)  I don't know how big a deal it would be to change out that front sight post-I'm trying to build a rifle similar to a M16A4-which is what I used in the Army.  The Bobro mount-it IS quick detach, right?

...IF I DID want to change out the front sight post/gas block, how big a deal is that?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 20:19
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For those of you who have the 1-4 will it co-witness at 1x like an aimpoint?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 20:24
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It really is not a major project for an armor with tools you can buy gas blocks of different configurations on line at midwayusa and a lot of other places. Some of them bolt on and some use a taper pin and I suspect the bolt on versions with the hex screw are user installable. The one with the flip up built on it spendy but then you dont have to buy a flip up front sight. There are two heights of flip up front sights one height mounts on the quadrail fore end one height mounts on the rail gas block.
I would think long and hard before I gave up the free Bobro mount that comes with that T reticle.  I do think the ACOG and Compact ACOG are built combat tough and the Accupoints are really intended to be hunting scopes where the SS is intended to be a combat optic and was built under specs for some branch of the service.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 20:26
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Check on Brownells website.  THey have videos that teach you everything about assembling and replacing AR parts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2011 at 20:34
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This is a really tempting package also and one I highly recommend as I have two of the 3-9 scopes and I find that I can get onto a target at 6x pretty darn quick.  Once you get into this power range I can see the need fot tactical knobs and this will allow precise long range shots.

Links to KIT6 components:
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical Riflescope
BOBRO Low, Slightly Forward
SWFA SS Kill-Flash (ARD)
Butler Creek Eye Cover
Butler Creek Objective Cover
SWFA SS 42mm Sun Shade
________________________________________________________________________


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - June/23/2011 at 20:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 12:16
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Here is a very good review, well worth reading.
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 12:26
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

For those of you who have the 1-4 will it co-witness at 1x like an aimpoint?


No
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 15:09
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

For those of you who have the 1-4 will it co-witness at 1x like an aimpoint?

Even if it did, you can't do that: can't co-witness through a magnifying scope, even at 1X.

But, as said, it cannot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 16:11
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CoolNOT to disparage the OP or anyone else, but damn I'd like to see casual AR users move on from the "Cowitness Obsession" we have been rockin for years.....Thanks ARFCOM. Wink 

Disclaimer:
I realize this OP is considering the virtues of cowitness for a duty weapon, so please don't be hatin'.   Cool 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 16:17
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Do we have some intel somewhere on the size of the circle at different powers at known distance.  I may be off but it looks like the circle is 34 mils wide so at 100 yds the circle would represent  122.4 inches where an 18 in shoulder width at 100 yds would be 5 mils.  Does that sound right?
 
 


 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 16:28
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Ur

The radius of the circle is given in your pic.

Inside edge is R 13.5 so that is 27 mil inside to inside.
Outside edge is R 16.5 so that would be 33 mil outside to outside.

and ffp so it does not matter what power.


Edited by 308 Sav - June/24/2011 at 16:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2011 at 16:30
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Currently I dont have anything set up to co-wittness but I have used my Comp M4s and Comp M4 that way with flip up sights in the past as it does give you a meanst to double check that your optic  has remained sighted in following rough handling.  Of the three AR's that I run the most often one is an A2 carry handle target gun with no optic, one is a CAR 16 standard front sight with flip up ARMS rear which I have used Aimpoints on, and One has a quad rail gas block so no front sight which I run different optics on since not having the front sight makes it much more pleasant to run optics.   If I used a 1-4 this would be the rifle I would use  it on and I can see how the 1-4 does replace several optics for the CQB distances. I would probably have bought one had it been a 1.5-6 as I really like my 6x and hate to give that up for something that tops out at 4x where I would have no problem running the 3-9x42 which I just love especially with the new reticle.   Shame I have not gotten to see one of the 1-4 s though.
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