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SWFA SS10x42HD on springer ???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2010 at 18:13
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Hello. This is my first post here.
 
I am hoping to get some expert opinon on whether or not the SWFA SS 10X42 HD scope could be expected to survive extended use on a spring piston air rifle.   
 
If you are familiar with springers, then you are already familiar with the issue, that a scope capable withstanding the significant recoil from a magnum centerfire rifle might not hold up to the different mix of forces generated by a springer.
 
I'm looking at putting the scope on an RWS (Diana) model 56 Target Hunter.  I don't have it in hand yet, on back order for a few weeks.   
 
I'm planning on using Burris XTR rings on a UTG DN460 scope mount.  Not sure why RWS is still using their misaligned frail rail, but the DN460 supposedly compensates for the deficiencies by providing a Picatinny style rail on a mount with good recoil stop and suitable elevation correction for the M48/52/54/65 family of RWS springers.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2010 at 18:46
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Well the SS is rated for 50BMG

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2010 at 18:48
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That UTG rail tho. that will fail first. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 01:44
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Originally posted by stork23raz stork23raz wrote:

That UTG rail tho. that will fail first. 
 
Thanks for the nudge, intentional or not.  You got me rethinking the scope mount.
 
I suspect that a Dampa Mount could be a better solution, softening the hammer blows on the scope from the spring piston.  But I haven't found a Dampa Mount from a US source with 30mm rings of appropriate height, just one with 30mm rings high enough for use with 56mm scopes (and no droop compensation). 
 
That additional height would shift the point blank kill zone a little further out, maybe not a bad thing with the 10x scope.  
 
Main thing is that it would help protect the scope.   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 07:09
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I really dont know anything about spring piston air guns. But I do know that those cheap mounts will fall  off a 22 recoil. How much recoil does this thing have. I couldnt imagine that be worse the recoil of a 50.  The SS is a tank, its built to nato specs.  I really think it will handle anything you need. I would worry more about your rings and bases failing first.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 07:11
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JRT, i know nothing on springers but i do know that Doug has a lot of experiece with them and will point out this thread to him.  If i had a airgun/springer question, he'd be the one I'd want to ask.....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 10:58
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My concern is with the choice of rings. I have had bad experience with Burris XTR's on heavy kicker's. Used them to mount a regular 10x42 S.S. on a Savage model 11 .300 wsm, coupled with an EGW rail, the scope moved a lot! Personally I would recommend a better set of rings. TPS and Warne get great reviews, I went with Badger Ordnance. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 11:01
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I don't think I would call a air rifle a hard kicker.  They just have a different kind of recoil that typical scopes are not built for. 

As far as Burris rings being strong enough, I have a buddy who has them on a Barrett semi auto .50 with a 16x SS and so far they are just fine.  I can't imagine an air rifle would be hard on them at all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 13:16
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I don't think the SS would have any problems with the Diana. I haven't used the HD, but it is supposed to be a step up from the 3-9 SS I have used. If you want a fixed 10X I would definitely go for it.

I would not, however, go with an adapter rail to mount on the 11mm dovetail. I would rather go with a top mount like a BKL that clamps directly to the dovetail. This set up reduces the number of clamping interfaces and makes for less likelihood of the mounts moving.

I have a few magnum springers including a Webley Patriot and RWS Diana 350 Magnum. These guns do indeed kick and are hard on both mounts and scopes. I have been through B-Square, Sportsmatch/Beeman and Burris airgun mounts. They have all moved. The BKL mounts don't even use a stop, but because both sides of the clamp move in equally on the dovetail, have great holding strength.
If you look at a standard 11mm/3/8" mount or rail adapter you can see only one side of the clamp floats. The 11mm dovetail is not very robust to begin with. When the screws are tightened down, only the floating side moves. This causes the mount to tilt in the direction of the fixed side. This further weakens an already weak condition since the bottom of the mount is not flat on the dovetail. It is essentially a point loading on one edge of the mount and not the full surface.
Good luck with your Diana. It is a top Drawer gun and should be very accrate.
 
Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 14:07
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It eats Springers for breakfast.
 
Everything in the 10xHD in regards to durability is double what the 3-9x has and the 3-9x is Springer rated too.
 
I can say with all honesty that I do not know of any scope on the market that is built stronger than the 10xHD.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 15:58
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I don't think the SS would have any problems with the Diana. I haven't used the HD, but it is supposed to be a step up from the 3-9 SS I have used. If you want a fixed 10X I would definitely go for it.

I would not, however, go with an adapter rail to mount on the 11mm dovetail. I would rather go with a top mount like a BKL that clamps directly to the dovetail. This set up reduces the number of clamping interfaces and makes for less likelihood of the mounts moving.

I have a few magnum springers including a Webley Patriot and RWS Diana 350 Magnum. These guns do indeed kick and are hard on both mounts and scopes. I have been through B-Square, Sportsmatch/Beeman and Burris airgun mounts. They have all moved. The BKL mounts don't even use a stop, but because both sides of the clamp move in equally on the dovetail, have great holding strength.
If you look at a standard 11mm/3/8" mount or rail adapter you can see only one side of the clamp floats. The 11mm dovetail is not very robust to begin with. When the screws are tightened down, only the floating side moves. This causes the mount to tilt in the direction of the fixed side. This further weakens an already weak condition since the bottom of the mount is not flat on the dovetail. It is essentially a point loading on one edge of the mount and not the full surface.
Good luck with your Diana. It is a top Drawer gun and should be very accrate.
 
Doug
 
Thanks for sharing your experience and advice.  
 
I was looking at some listings of Beeman's Sportsmatch sourced mounts and saw that they came in a few flavors, one was a Dampa Mount, and the rest were various flavors of hard mounts.   Was yours a Dampa Mount (captured rubber bushings and sliding ways)?  ...or one of the other types?
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 16:47
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Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

It eats Springers for breakfast.
 
Everything in the 10xHD in regards to durability is double what the 3-9x has and the 3-9x is Springer rated too.
 
I can say with all honesty that I do not know of any scope on the market that is built stronger than the 10xHD.
 
 
Thanks for posting.  Its good to know it is compatible with springers.
 
What is the range of usable elevation adjustment on that scope?  
 
The answer on that affects the decision I make on mounting.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2010 at 16:50
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26 mils / 90 moa
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2010 at 11:56
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I have the 5038 one piece. It moved on the Patriot and scored the top of the receiver.
The HD on top of the RWS will be awesome looking along with shooting great.

Doug
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2010 at 20:51
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Problem solved... I cancelled the back-ordered springer.
...and ordered an FX Independence and BKL rings/mounts.
Now I need to order the SWFA SS10x42HD.
 
The FX Independence is a lot more money than I had planned to spend, but it eliminates both the springer's scope stressing recoil and the Diana barrel droop issues.  It should be at least as accurate with much higher power and low radiated SPL.  And like the springer, a scuba tank isn't required (can be charged from a tank and/or pumped by hand).
 
Just wanted to thank everybody for their advice, very helpful as I was thinking this through.
 
 
 
.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by JRT JRT wrote:

Hello. This is my first post here.
 
I am hoping to get some expert opinon on whether or not the SWFA SS 10X42 HD scope could be expected to survive extended use on a spring piston air rifle.   
 
If you are familiar with springers, then you are already familiar with the issue, that a scope capable withstanding the significant recoil from a magnum centerfire rifle might not hold up to the different mix of forces generated by a springer.
 
I'm looking at putting the scope on an RWS (Diana) model 56 Target Hunter.  I don't have it in hand yet, on back order for a few weeks.   
 
I'm planning on using Burris XTR rings on a UTG DN460 scope mount.  Not sure why RWS is still using their misaligned frail rail, but the DN460 supposedly compensates for the deficiencies by providing a Picatinny style rail on a mount with good recoil stop and suitable elevation correction for the M48/52/54/65 family of RWS springers.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2010 at 14:10
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Correction:
It is an FX Independent not Independence.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2010 at 21:40
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Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

26 mils / 90 moa
 
Chris, thanks for the info.
 
Advertised specs indicate a minimum focus distance of 10 meters:
 
Specifications
Weight (oz): 20


Mil-Dot

Length (in): 13.5
Eye Relief (in): 3.75
Field of View @ 100yds (ft): 10.5
Rear Focus Adjustment (m): 10 - infinity
 
 
But then I read , board member 'Urimaginaryfrnd' comment, "...the minimum focus on the HD is about 50 yds where the old style will focus down to 10 or 15 yds."
 
 
Could you please clarify this discrepancy for me?  Are the published specs incorrect? 
 
I'm looking for something that can focus down to 10 meters.   A 50 yard minimum won't suit my application.  
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2010 at 11:02
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JRT, first of all, hi all, I am new here.
Second of all, keep that SWFA on a PCP or a firearm. These are not spring-piston gun rated. The fact that it withstands the recoil of 50 BMG has nothing to do with ability to withstand recoils generated by springers; they have two-way recoil, also side-to-side vibration and that's what kills firearm scopes. I have seen expensive scopes go south on spring guns that were 10 times cheaper. Don't make that mistake. RWS56 is recoiless to the shooter but not to the scope. Both RWS54 and 56 are considered scope killers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2010 at 12:59
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I beg to differ with you! There are many people that use S.S. scopes on there springers. Not to mention with customer service like SWFA's if you happen to break one, it will not be a problem getting it replaced.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2010 at 13:01
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Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

I beg to differ with you! There are many people that use S.S. scopes on there springers. Not to mention with customer service like SWFA's if you happen to break one, it will not be a problem getting it replaced.
+1 Agreed. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2010 at 13:18
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May I ask what springers? I simply stated my opinion since I have seen plenty of "great" optics go south on springers. There are springers that don't affect anything much, especially low/medium recoil ones and of high quality - R7, HW50S, etc. There are, however, springers that are nothing but scope busters - RWS54/56, W&S Patriot, etc. I am not here to argue, just state my opinion based on my experience, nothing less, nothing more. Are you familiar with RWS54/56 series of Diana rifles? I had one for a long time and it broke these fine scopes to pieces: Bushnell 4200 Elite, Burris Timberline, and Leupold EFR. And I am not raising an issue of how easy to replace them either. I replaced all three for very little money. It's good to know about SWFA service though; I have just purchased their SS 10x42 for my .308
Thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2010 at 13:28
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Forgot to add, I am not saying it will definitely break. How can I know for sure? All I am saying don't take that chance. I shoot airguns all my life and I am not exactly young. BTW, this is my new addition to my airgun horde: UK .25 Theoben Rapid with a custom paint.
Can you spot the rifle? Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2010 at 13:35
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On the first page of this thread, member tahqua, and the owner of SWFA(Chris Farris) state that the S.S. series of scopes stand up well to springers. I personally don't shoot a springer,but my S.S. has taken some pretty good abuse.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2010 at 13:37
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VYD,
 
With all do respect,
 
Chris Farris of SWFA posted earlier in the thread that the SS3-9 and ss10HD are both rated for springers.  He should know.
 
I like the looks of your rig.  Don't forget which tree you leaned it up against.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2010 at 13:42
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Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

26 mils / 90 moa
 
Just for the record... I have a 10xHD (#666 BTW) and it has 38.4 mils/132 MOA adjustment in both Elevation and Azimuth/Windage.  Chris doesn't like to brag.  Mine is mounted on a .50BMG.  It is as tough as anything I have ever used...  I would take it anywhere, on any rifle, for any use.  Koshkin mentioned submersion in water, I did (very reluctantly) with no detrimentt.  I did not freeze it, but I am confident that if I gather up the intestinal fortitude to stick it in the freezer overnight, #666 will survive with no ill effects. 
Make sure you get quick release rings, so if the zombies attack and you run out of bullets/pellets, you can remove the scope and use it to bash their little zombie-brains out until you can get to more ammo...  It will be dead on zero when you remount it...
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