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SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread |
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
Posted: August/09/2007 at 16:38 | ||||
I don't know exactly how the law reads in regards to marking products Made in USA, vs. Made in Where-ever but it is my understanding that if a certain percentage of the work is done here you can legally claim, Made in the USA but I don't know if you have to claim that. In other words it would be beneficial for a company that has it's products made i n Mexico to do some of the work here so they can claim Made in the USA. It is much more prestigious to say Made in Austria or Made in Germany than it is to say Made in the USA. The fact that the scopes are put together may not be something that Swarovski and or Kahles really want you to know.
Swarovski and Kahles parted ways as far as sharing technologies, Kahles is still owned by Swarovski Optik and they will continue to use the same physical address for landing, distributing, assembling and repairing products most likely because it would not be financially beneficial to build and operate two locations in the U.S. |
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
Posted: August/09/2007 at 17:18 | ||||
It needs to be on the market for a while to see how well they hold up. We already know how they compare optically and spec wise.
Nikon does have very bad customer service and has for a long time. Once the new Monarchs starting landing in late September we'll start testing their customer service at the same time we are testing the product so that we can position them correctly. |
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
Posted: August/09/2007 at 17:22 | ||||
They will not be available to the public until late September. We've played with pre-production models for a while and the specs are in print, I bumped them up primarily for the reasons you noted. Edited by Chris Farris |
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
Posted: August/09/2007 at 17:24 | ||||
The new Monarch X scopes are available but they are really a different animal, the new 4x erector Monarchs are not available yet.
You can see some of the info about them at www.TheNewMonarch.com |
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
Posted: August/09/2007 at 19:20 | ||||
Thank you for the info Chris.
focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
Posted: August/09/2007 at 19:32 | ||||
Yes thanks and by the way, I agree with you on the "yankees" comment......
Stars and Bars forever |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14962 |
Posted: August/10/2007 at 08:58 | ||||
6 - Bushnell Elite 4200, Nikon Monarch, Zeiss Conquest 5 - Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L
HMMM I think I would have to rate these all on the same line or at least carry the Zeiss conquest on line 6 and drop the 4200 and Monarch to line 5. My reasons are several among which is a sore spot on the top of my nose from a new Bushnell 4200 4-16x40 that I couldnt get to shoot a decent group at 100 yds on a 30-06 pro hunter Encore yesterday. Great glass but I could have used a tad more eye relief ouch. I think that the amount of internal adjustment on the Leupold models is surperior to many other scopes and they come in a staggering array of styles including reticle patterns that make a significant difference. The last two Nikons I bought both went back but I have had very VERY little trouble with my Leupolds. Yes they are over priced so is most anything that says made in the U.S. but a hit with a Leupold because the reticle gave you a known hold over point beats a miss with a Kahles $$ that gives you a great view of bambi running away. There really is more than just glass to consider. I am deciding on a tactical scope right now and I really would like to go with a U.S. Optics, Hensold, S&B, but three grand is out of my range Nightforce would be a possibility but cant trade into one here, IOR would be a posibility but Badger doesnt make 35mm rings so that leaves LEUPOLD doesnt it. |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
Posted: August/10/2007 at 11:33 | ||||
The IOR 35MM is a much better scope and overall in a different class than the Mark 4 and better than the NF IMO, forget the fact that it is available in a FFP even in the SFP it is better than the NF but in the same price bracket it also comes with free TPS 35MM rings. Here is the great Longbow308 who recently won his first match ever with his on a factory rifle.
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7008 Edited by Trinidad |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14962 |
Posted: August/10/2007 at 13:52 | ||||
I like the IOR glass but the rings I am not familiar with. So far I am interested in two new models naturally neither of which is available. LEUPOLD® MARK 4®
OR
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Trinidad
Optics Master Joined: May/04/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1555 |
Posted: August/10/2007 at 13:58 | ||||
Best of luck with your choice and set up. TPS rings are world class, there should be no worries there if you go with the IOR.
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
Posted: August/30/2007 at 13:15 | ||||
Were we ever able to determine where the Grand Slam is being made now?
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take em!
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VSLaika
Optics GrassHopper Joined: April/12/2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Posted: February/08/2008 at 10:38 | ||||
I feel it is wrong to put Kahles and Schmidt & Bender before Swarovski PH (or PV as they are named in Europe)PH is at better scope than S&B and Kahles in my opinion. Zeiss Classic is at least as good as Kahles and S&B perhaps even better.Many european tests indicates the same thing. I'am not sure how good Swarovski Z6 is ,but I agree that Zeiss V should be at top. Except for one thing; the V model have a lot of problems "many" of them had to be sent back for repair. In european hunting forums some people says they won't buy more Zeiss V just because of this even if the optics are better than any other scopes..
In some tests I have seen both Zeiss V , Zeiss Classic and Swarovski PH scored 10/10 points for use in twilight and darkness,even if Zeiss V and Classic had a little higher total score. Kahles , S&B Klassik and Zenith all came behind the two top brands Zeiss and Swarovski
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catt_tracker
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/14/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 103 |
Posted: February/08/2008 at 12:08 | ||||
Where would you place the Bushnell 6500 on your scale Chris?
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Handler
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
Posted: February/12/2008 at 16:25 | ||||
I have a new Kahles ZF-84 6x42 that I mounted on a HK-91 with the HK Claw clamp and I am having trouble adjusting the elevation using my bore-siter, which is a lazer slip in the end of the barrel type. When I pick up the dot it shows I am low and when I turn the top turret it will bring the the dot up but not all the way to the X. What gives,\ Thanks,
K-9
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Handler
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
Posted: February/12/2008 at 16:34 | ||||
not sure what that has to do with this thread maybe you should post this some where else, like start a new subject
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Dolphin
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1795 |
Posted: February/12/2008 at 18:53 | ||||
Getting in late on this one. Basically, it is a bunch of bullsh*t. BSA with Leapers. Trijicon below any Leupold scope made. Burris FFII in the same group as the Leupold Rifleman scope, not to mention the Mueller and Swift scopes. Sightron is easily the equal of the Bushnell 4200s. A Swift in the same group as a Barska. Let get real. The ratings scale in pure bullsh*t and should be trashed. I am not sure there should be a scale, unless it is based on some objective testing of, at least some type. Obviously the Euro scopes are going to land on top. Who is going to spend 100,000 dollars on a Mercedes Benz and complain about it. Same goes with Euro scopes. It is easy to find faults with a cheap scope and complain about them. Same with a Kia, although, I would not buy one of those. So, I would say, trash that scale and never post it again and lets replace it with one at least based on some objective data.
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
Posted: February/12/2008 at 19:04 | ||||
Come on Dolphin.....how do you really feel :>) I agree there are some real out of place positions on some but I guess its just to give a general idea. I agree the big skys are the equal of 4200's but not the plain Sll's. I think the Fullfield ll is between the VX l and VX ll's. About like the 3200 elite. Nobodys gonna agree with all the ratings for sure. I've never used a Kia scope but believe they are poor on edge to edge clarity......
Focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
Posted: February/12/2008 at 19:40 | ||||
one set up by koshkin would be great!
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Ed Connelly
Optics Retard God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24225 |
Posted: February/13/2008 at 05:20 | ||||
I think Chris and SWFA should give one control group of, say...a thousand of us "testers" ...a Swarovski Z6, and then give the second control group a thousand Zeiss Victorys-- so we can wring them out in the field, and come to some Hard Data Conclusions.
You bet.
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Focus
Optics Master Conquistador!! Joined: June/05/2007 Location: Maine Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
Posted: February/13/2008 at 06:32 | ||||
Oh......he didn't give you one to test Ed? Maybe next time around you'll get one too......:>) I hear they will sending some BSA's out soon.......
Focus |
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I Can See Clearly Now......<><
If Accurate rifles Are Interesting.....I've Got Some Savages That Are Getting Mighty Interesting...... |
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