New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread (2008)
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread (2008)

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2 3 9>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:01
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765

The scale below was formed by SWFA sales staff, customer service, pro-staff and owners using personal experience, customer input and facts supplied by the manufacturers.  The ranking system is based on the following criteria (in order of importance and weight).

 

1.  Optical Quality - How bright and clear the scope is.

2.  Specifications - Field of view, eye relief, weight, adjustment travel, etc.

3.  Durability - How do they with stand the test of time.

4.  Special Features & Options - Proprietary items (reticles, design, turrets), Zoom ratio.

5.  Warranty & Customer Service - How good are they.

6.  Value - Bang for your buck.

 

In order to maintain the scale's simplicity we are not listing every single manufacture and only major manufactures will have several of their brands listed.  This scale also does not have discontinued brands or products like the old U.S.A. made Redfields, Japan Tasco or Japan Simmons Aetec.  This scale is heavily weighted toward HUNTING as being the application the scope will be used for.

 

This scale will be kept current with changes that the manufacturers are making that affect their rank.  Many of the lower end companies have been bought and sold a lot recently and while the names have stayed the same......the product has not.

 

 

2008 Riflescope Rating Scale

 

10 - Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Victory

9 - Kahles C - CL & CSX, Schmidt & Bender

8 - Kahles KX, U.S. Optics, Swarovski PH & American, X.O.T.I.C.,  Zeiss Classic

7 - Bushnell Elite 6500, Leupold VX-7, Nightforce, IOR Valdada

6 - Bushnell Elite 4200, Nikon Monarch & Monarch X, Zeiss Conquest

5 - Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L, Nikon Monarch Gold & Titanium, Sightron SIII

4 - Burris Black Diamond Signature Select XTR & Euro Diamond, Meopta, Pentax Lightseeker, Super Sniper, Trijicon Accupoint, Weaver Grand Slam

3 - Bushnell Elite 3200, Leatherwood, Leupold VX-II, Millet, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Vortex

2 -  Burris Fullfield II & Timberline, Leupold Rifleman & VX-I, Mueller, Nikon ProStaff, Simmons, Swift

1 - Barska, BSA, Tasco

0 - ATN, Leapers, NcStar



Edited by Chris Farris - March/12/2008 at 09:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:06
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
im not sure about the stuff in the no4 ranking, burris black diamond that low really? and meopta too?? i thought the sightron sII was suppose to be about like a nikon monarch ucc? and nikon gold and titanium below the monarch?? just looking for some explanation here if i am missing something about this scale tell me.

Edited by pyro6999 - February/19/2008 at 11:08
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:12
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765

Okay.  Tell me what you know about the Black Diamond.  Have you owned one?  What makes it different than the Signature Select?  What is the weight like on them compared to a Mark 4.  How critical is the eye relief?  What do you think about Burris' customer service and warranty department, ever dealt with them?

Same questions for you too about Meopta???

You say, "i thought the sightron sII was suppose to be about like a nikon monarch ucc?"  Tell us why you thought that.  Did someone tell you that or do you own both?
 
We are looking for real world experience that involves all 6 rating criteria. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:16
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
im just asking what makes up the score, is all 6 criteria equal in determining the score or do they have varying percentages? just trying to fiugre out the formula so i can undestand why each scope scored where it did.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:22
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

im not sure about the stuff in the no4 ranking, burris black diamond that low really? and meopta too?? i thought the sightron sII was suppose to be about like a nikon monarch ucc? and nikon gold and titanium below the monarch?? just looking for some explanation here if i am missing something about this scale tell me.
 
You edited your post while I was replying to it, so I will quote this one and answer the questions that were added.
 
The Nikon Gold and Titanium are optically identical to the previous 3x erector (now discontinued) Monarchs.  They offer no advantage for their higher price tags.  The new 4x erector Monarchs are totally new from the ground up and are clearly better scopes in every aspect.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:24
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

im just asking what makes up the score, is all 6 criteria equal in determining the score or do they have varying percentages? just trying to fiugre out the formula so i can undestand why each scope scored where it did.  
 
Just read the orignal post, your answer is in the first two sentances.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:24
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
thank you, i just want clairification chris thats all, i want this scale to be understanable to any idiot, just like me thats all
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:35
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5431

Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

Okay.  Tell me what you know about the Black Diamond.  Have you owned one?  What makes it different than the Signature Select?  What is the weight like on them compared to a Mark 4.  How critical is the eye relief?  What do you think about Burris' customer service and warranty department, ever dealt with them?

I have to agree with pyro on the black diamond.  I do own one, and I also own a Bushnell 4200.  The raingaurd is the only area imo where the 4200 is better.  The optics are the same.  The black diamond as of now, I would consider more durable.  The downside is a heavier scope, which doesn't bother me that much.  As for the customer service, I have had nothing but GOOD service from them.  Very friendly and fast.  No problems on the warranty department.  If you think there is something wrong, send it to them, and it is taken care of.  No questions asked so far.

As for the difference between the Sig Sel and Black Diamond.  The Black Diamond has side paralax.  That, at least for me, is why I bought the Black Diamond, and not the Sig Sel.  The glass is the same.  And there are more selection with the Sig Sel.  You could move both of them up a couple levels in my opinion.  As well as the new XTR with the rain coating that it is getting.  I would actually like to see the burris moved up.  They have been under rated in my opinion.  The Black Diamond and XTR are 4200 level.

Thanks for the scale Chris.  It does help when compareing scopes.  Moving the Burris scopes up is the only change I would make right now.
 
Edited to add:  I forgot to mention the eye releif.  The Black Diamond and XTR are better that the 4200 and more forgiving on eye placement.  On magnum calibers, that makes a difference


Edited by helo18 - February/19/2008 at 11:40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:51
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10981
I like this scale.  I think it is pretty accurate.  Naturally, there are a couple of things that I disagree with a little, but they are debatable.  I'll just ramble along a little with my comments, starting at the top of the scale.

I can probably argue that S&B belongs at the top with Z6 and Victory, but we have had that discussion before.  You can argue it both ways since S&B does have comparatively narrower field of view and less adjustment range.

US Optics makes good scopes and when their glass is good (they have occasional lapses) they could be near the top of the scale.  However, they are very heavy and the line-up is somewhat limited.  Once again this could be argued both ways.

It has been a little while since I've seen an XOTIC scope for sale and I have no clue what the new XOTIC is going to be like.  Unless you are confident that it is going to hit the market shortly, I am not sure  it should be on the scale until it is available again.

Elite 6500 copes are very good, but also new.  I can't really say where they fit based on just looking at them at SHOT.  I guess time will tell.

IOR might be dragged down a little by their weight and past customer service issues, but in terms of glass, zoom ratio, etc, they should be a notch up. 

Nightforce scopes are superb mechanically, but are dragged down by their glass a little.

SIghtron S3, now that it got the glass redesign may need to be a step higher, but I need to play with those scopes first.  They did look very good at SHOT.

Generally, Sightron's Big Sky scope are fully the equal of Elite 4200 optically with longer eyerelief and larger adjustment range.

Meopta Meostar scopes are very good optically, but Artemis scopes are not quite as good.  On balance, Meopta is probably in the right spot, but you'll get a lot of people who are only familiar with the Meostar upset with this one.

Sightron S1 and S2, on average are in the right spot, but if you were to splite them apart, S1 would move a notch down and S2 would move a notch up.

Millett is in the right place overall.  The new LRS scopes are a bit better than that, but I'll wait until I test one.  Once again, it is kinda hard to make space for all the different product lines that makers have.

I really did not like what I saw at the Simmons/Weaver booth, but I have not really played with an Aetec for a little while.  The regullar SImmons scopes seemed like just any other junky chinese scopes.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 12:28
Duce View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: September/19/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1231
Thanks for the new scale Chris,  very informative
 
Duce Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 12:32
Brock_Brett View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 123
Thanks Chris, good guidelines

Rob
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 13:09
luv2shoot View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/30/2008
Location: North Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 79
XOTIC scopes are not available and are ranked 8th????????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 13:24
tahqua View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Have You Driven A Ford Lately?

Joined: March/27/2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 8047
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

 

 This scale is heavily weighted toward HUNTING as being the application the scope will be used for.

 

 
Chris,
Can you give us an approximate idea of what scope sales amount to for hunting versus target and tactical scopes? My guess is that hunting scope sales far surpass target and tactical sales. I don't mean to downgrade the other shooting sports, either. I ask this because hunting scopes are the base line for the scale. This topic can be moved if needed.
Some of the needs of different shooters are starting to be cross functional these days. I think the sales comparisons would be interesting to track the next few years. The new Z6 and the Bushnell 6500's are prime examples of cross functional features. Maybe some of us will be updating to the new wave ourselvesWink.
 
There has been a lot of hard work put into this scale and it is a great reference.
 
Thanks,
Doug


Edited by tahqua - February/19/2008 at 13:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 13:32
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Staff
TEAM SWFA - Staff
Avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: August/13/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

1.  Optical Quality - How bright and clear the scope is.

2.  Specifications - Field of view, eye relief, weight, adjustment travel, etc.

3.  Durability - How do they with stand the test of time.

4.  Special Features & Options - Proprietary items (reticles, design, turrets), Zoom ratio.

5.  Warranty & Customer Service - How good are they.

6.  Value - Bang for your buck.

 

 

They are not rated just on quality. You have to think a little about the value of the scope vs. its pricetag. Which scope is the best deal for the money not just which scope is the best. When you actually compare the Nikon Monarch to the Monarch Gold you will find that the Monarch is lighter and has a better field of view. The Gold has the same lens coatings, has a little better exit pupil, a 30mm tube, and the side focus on the lower powers. The Monarchs have the upgraded optical system and bigger eyebox. The Monarch is also priced at $389.95 vs. the Gold at $699.95. So when you take in the price, all the differences, and all of the other factors the Monarch is actually above the Gold. Then when you take the Monarch vs. the Titanium The Monarch has a 4x multiplier vs. the Titaniums 3x, the Monarch is lighter, has a better eye relief, has a better field of view, and is $389.95 vs. the similar Titanium at $599.95. The Titanium is only Titanium in the eyepiece and the objective bell the rest of the scope is the same as the previous Monarch. So when you take all of these things into account the Monarch is actually on top of the Titanium. The Monarch has 34-70 total MOA depending on the model, the gold has 50-80 total MOA, and the Titanium has 40-50 MOA. I agree and disagree with the opinions on the Burris. The Signature Select and the Euro are relatively the exact same scope qualitly wise. The Euro IMHO is an overpriced Signature Select seeing as you are not gaining anything except a little durabilty and a 30mm tube to jump up almost $200 over the Sig. Select. I do believe that even though optically the Black Diamond and the Sig. Select are the same and the price is $140 more  that the Black Diamond is worth it seeing as you are gaining the 30mm tube and the side focus. I would move the Black Diamond up one. The XTR is a better scope of course but it is worth the extra money? I think it is, it comes with exposed knobs, Illumination, and a 30mm tube. With that being said I do not think it should be a ranking above the rest of the Burris scopes though. Especially since this is rated on hunting not tactical. If we rated all of the scopes tactically it would be a whole new ball game. I think that is all for now. Remember this is not a scale based on just the quality of the scopes. They all have all 6 criteria taken in to consideration when deciding their placement.


Edited by Chris Farris II - February/19/2008 at 13:34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 13:42
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Edited to add:  I forgot to mention the eye releif.  The Black Diamond and XTR are better that the 4200 and more forgiving on eye placement.  On magnum calibers, that makes a difference
 
You are the first person I have ever heard be complementary in regards to Burris' eye relief.  In fact their critical eye relief was a major factor in their placement.  It has been the second most complaint that we hear about Burris, the most common complaint is about their customer service and warranty tactics.  They have recently put forth a lot of effort (partly due to posts on The OT) to improve their self admitted poor customer service, but we have not had enough time to fully see any changes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 13:43
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5431
Originally posted by Chris Farris II I agree and disagree with the opinions on the Burris. The Signature Select and the Euro are relatively the exact same scope qualitly wise. The Euro IMHO is an overpriced Signature Select seeing as you are not gaining anything except a little durabilty and a 30mm tube to jump up almost $200 over the Sig. Select. I do believe that even though optically the Black Diamond and the Sig. Select are the same and the price is $140 more  that the Black Diamond is worth it seeing as you are gaining the 30mm tube and the side focus. I would move the Black Diamond up one. The XTR is a better scope of course but it is worth the extra money? I think it is, it comes with exposed knobs, Illumination, and a 30mm tube. With that being said I do not think it should be a ranking above the rest of the Burris scopes though. Especially since this is rated on hunting not tactical. If we rated all of the scopes tactically it would be a whole new ball game. I think that is all for now. Remember this is not a scale based on just the quality of the scopes. They all have all 6 criteria taken in to consideration when deciding their placement.[/QUOTE Chris Farris II I agree and disagree with the opinions on the Burris. The Signature Select and the Euro are relatively the exact same scope qualitly wise. The Euro IMHO is an overpriced Signature Select seeing as you are not gaining anything except a little durabilty and a 30mm tube to jump up almost $200 over the Sig. Select. I do believe that even though optically the Black Diamond and the Sig. Select are the same and the price is $140 more  that the Black Diamond is worth it seeing as you are gaining the 30mm tube and the side focus. I would move the Black Diamond up one. The XTR is a better scope of course but it is worth the extra money? I think it is, it comes with exposed knobs, Illumination, and a 30mm tube. With that being said I do not think it should be a ranking above the rest of the Burris scopes though. Especially since this is rated on hunting not tactical. If we rated all of the scopes tactically it would be a whole new ball game. I think that is all for now. Remember this is not a scale based on just the quality of the scopes. They all have all 6 criteria taken in to consideration when deciding their placement.[/QUOTE wrote:

 
I will agree with most of what you have said.  You brought out a few points that I didn't about the Black Diamond, such as the 30mm tube.  Where I disagree with you is where to rank the XTR.  Although it is a tactical (easily used as a hunting scope in my opinion), what sets it above the other Burris scopes is the new raingaurd coating that it is supposed to be getting.  Once I receive mine from SWFA, I will compare it to my Black Diamond, and give a full report.  But I think the XTR could be rated above even the Black Diamond.  I would personally have no problems bumping the Black Diamond up one (would go two, but it is pretty expensive to give it two spots), and the XTR two spots.
 
Edited to add:  Not sure why it is posting my stuff in the quote.  Sorry about that.
 
I will agree with most of what you have said.  You brought out a few points that I didn't about the Black Diamond, such as the 30mm tube.  Where I disagree with you is where to rank the XTR.  Although it is a tactical (easily used as a hunting scope in my opinion), what sets it above the other Burris scopes is the new raingaurd coating that it is supposed to be getting.  Once I receive mine from SWFA, I will compare it to my Black Diamond, and give a full report.  But I think the XTR could be rated above even the Black Diamond.  I would personally have no problems bumping the Black Diamond up one (would go two, but it is pretty expensive to give it two spots), and the XTR two spots.
 
Edited to add:  Not sure why it is posting my stuff in the quote.  Sorry about that.


Edited by helo18 - February/19/2008 at 13:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 13:49
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5431
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Edited to add:  I forgot to mention the eye releif.  The Black Diamond and XTR are better that the 4200 and more forgiving on eye placement.  On magnum calibers, that makes a difference
 
You are the first person I have ever heard be complementary in regards to Burris' eye relief.  In fact their critical eye relief was a major factor in their placement.  It has been the second most complaint that we hear about Burris, the most common complaint is about their customer service and warranty tactics.  They have recently put forth a lot of effort (partly due to posts on The OT) to improve their self admitted poor customer service, but we have not had enough time to fully see any changes.
 
I am not saying that the eye releif is the best, but compared to the 4200, it is better (at least the black diamond is, as well as the XTRs I have looked through).  As for the customer service, my experience has been excellent.  If they treat all their customers the way I have been treated, I think you will see a change in the opinion of their customer service.  I figured that was part of why they where rated lower, but with my experience, I easily would move them up.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 15:38
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Online
Points: 14324

I think that's a good scale, Chris!  I agree with most of the rankings, just based on the scope lines I have experience with.  I have a few minor disagreements with where some lines are ranked, but we all have our favorites, and I think overall, the rankings are reasonably close to what I would expect to see.  I can understand how difficult it is to put together such a scale, because some people weigh certain scope characteristics higher or lower than other people, and therefore, there's just no way you can remove all subjective opinion from the scale.  It's therefore difficult to quantify "value."

I think if I were trying to put together a ranking scale like this, I might have to break it down into half-point increments (i.e. 10, 9.5, 9, 8.5...) because there are several cases where I think a certain scope isn't quite as good as others at the same level, yet a little better than the level below it.
 
I appreciate the fact you guys even went to the effort to put this together in the first place, especially knowing that there will always be some disagreement with it no matter what criteria you use for your rankings.  Even if we don't agree with every ranking, it still forms a good general basis of comparison.
 
Good job!Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 16:11
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9533
I don't know about his scale, I have two BSAs and they are the most perfect paper weights I have ever owned.  And how you could rate them as a 1 I don't understand, they serve that purpose so well it has to move them into the 2 category.  Indian

Seriously it is nice to have a great reference like this.  It certainly should help to stop some of the hundreds of posts asking if x scope is a good one or is z scope better than y scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 16:12
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Chris,
Can you give us an approximate idea of what scope sales amount to for hunting versus target and tactical scopes? My guess is that hunting scope sales far surpass target and tactical sales. I don't mean to downgrade the other shooting sports, either. I ask this because hunting scopes are the base line for the scale. This topic can be moved if needed.
Some of the needs of different shooters are starting to be cross functional these days. I think the sales comparisons would be interesting to track the next few years. The new Z6 and the Bushnell 6500's are prime examples of cross functional features. Maybe some of us will be updating to the new wave ourselvesWink.
 
There has been a lot of hard work put into this scale and it is a great reference.
 
Thanks,
Doug
 
We keep a very close eye on these segregations and our data base even breaks it down beyond the three categories you mention to include Rimfire/Airgun and Varmint categories.  There are major divides amongst the shooting community as witnessed by last years Jim Zumbo fiasco.  The hunting category is by far the broadest and its members are more often seen participating in many of the other categories but oddly the other categories don't participate widely in any other categories.  What I mean by this is that a deer hunter is more likely to also varmint hunt and own a tactical rifle but a target shooter is less likely to also be a deer hunter and own a tactical rifle.  The other categorie's scopes are very specific and widely purpose built for that particular category and we would need to have scales for each to properly give them justice.....these are the reason why hunting was chosen as the main category for our scale.
 
Our sales are very seasonal per category but if you look at our sales over a long time period you would see a trend similar to this:
 
Hunting - 45
Tactical - 20
Varmint - 15
Target - 10
Rimfire/Airgun - 10
 
You make mention to a current trend of cross category scopes like the 6500.  They are trying to appeal to the deer hunter that also varmint hunts year round and owns a tactical rifle because there are many more of them than just tactical shooters or just varmint hunters.  This is also the reason for not calling the product a "sniper" scope or "tactical" scope because labeling it makes it difficult for cross promotion and secondly large companies like Bushnell are very sensitive to the word "tactical".  I don't think we will see a large push in the direction of "do it all" scopes, because it greatly reduces the number of SKUs a company has to offer which in turn reduces the number of SKUs distributors and dealers will have to stock.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 16:16
HOLLOWPOINT View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: November/24/2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 79
The ATN scopes costs serious bucks but the BARSKA glass is comperatively cheap. Neverthelsss the BARSKA are rated higher than the ATN scopes.
 
Why?
 
If those ATN are really THAT bad, no one with his intellectual faculties intact would buy them. At least not with that price tag.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 16:17
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024
huhuh i cant wait for chris to tell you what he thinks about them!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 16:22
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9533
I have owned a couple ATNs, I sold the one within a week after I got it and the other I still have but it is another paper weight.  Looking through them is like having one of those yellow filters over the lenses all the time.  Okay not that bad but pretty close.  And on top of that they are so damn ugly.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 16:30
HOLLOWPOINT View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: November/24/2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Quote I still have but it is another paper weight.  Looking through them is like having one of those yellow filters over the lenses all the time. 
 
Gross! Shocked
 
And how about the resolution and contrast of that scopes? Just as bad as the chromatic aberration? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 16:35
cyborg View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
God of Wind

Joined: August/24/2007
Location: North Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12082
I'm gonna stay out of this ATN thing.................Mouth%20Taped%20Shut
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2 3 9>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread (2008)"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread Chris Farris Rifle Scopes 78 8/10/2007 1:58:25 PM
SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread NDhunter Rifle Scopes 3
SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread (2009) Chris Farris Rifle Scopes 211
Chris- How about a scope scale ranking thread juslearnin Rifle Scopes 2
2010 SWFA Scope Scale Chris Farris Rifle Scopes 0
2009 SWFA Riflescope Rating Scale SamC Rifle Scopes 3
SWFA Ratings Scale? lewwetzel Rifle Scopes 2
SWFA Ratings Scale? onfinal Spotting Scopes 2
New Leupold 2008 LCS Target Scope 333smitty Target 1
Scope Quest 2008 Review Black n Tan Spotting Scopes 2


This page was generated in 0.359 seconds.