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Swarovski-value proposition

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2011 at 16:40
maine(r) View Drop Down
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So I am looking for a new scope for an Encore 270.  Researching Swarovski on the forum and have found posts stating the glass is the same on all Swaro lines (except for the Z6 line where you have HD glass in those models with mag >=15x)  Current prices for the following scopes are taken from SWFA today... rounded slightly:

Swarovski 3-10x42 Z3 Riflescope  1"

$900

Swarovski 3.5-18x44 Z5 Riflescope  1"

$1430

Swarovski 1.7-10x42 Z6 30mm Riflescope

$1,960

I just dont see this wide a margin in price from the other high end manufacturers for the same glass.  Great reviews about the Z6 but...... am I missing something here?  Z6 owners please chime in.

 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2011 at 15:41
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The Z5 and Z6 models have coil spring erectors and possibly etched reticles. The Z3 series have traditional leaf spring erectors holding their adjustments in place and I believe they have wire reticles. Are you interested in a 3-9x38 Z3 with Plex reticle? I have been told all have the same glass and coatings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2011 at 15:59
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Also the Z6 models have a 6x erector ratio.  They are able to have a very low and high mag on them that very few other manufacturers are doing.  I dare bet it cost a bunch of money for the design of those models. 

They also have zero tunneling on the low of the mag.  Many high ratio scope will tunnel so you gain no FOV on those lower powers.  Like IOR on the 3-18x models.  Below about 4.5x it starts to tunnel so at 3x you have no larger FOV than you do at 4.5x.  It really sucks.  The IOR 2.5-10x does the same thing.

I have a Z6 1-7-10x and gotta say it is one very nice optic.  The FOV on 1.7 is huge then having 10x on the top end for long shots is very nice. 

Is it worth the price?  That is really hard to say.  I used and got by with 3-9x scopes for a long time and could still do fine with them.  But I sure to enjoy my Z6, I have no regrets for buying it.




Edited by supertool73 - December/27/2011 at 16:00
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2011 at 19:06
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Whether it is worth the price or not really comes down to the person and what they can really afford.  I got the chance a while ago to test the Swaro 1.7-10 for a while.  I fell in love with that scope, and it is by far the best optics I have personally seen in a riflescope.  There are probably better, but not by much is my guess.  It is one of the top choices in my list at the moment for a project I am considering.  I can highly recommend that scope, but whether it is worth the money is more up to you and what you can afford.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2011 at 20:03
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Any mechanically-inclined people interested in explaining the coil spring erector advantage? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 07:27
tahqua View Drop Down
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Here is a good explanation on the erector springs http://www.opticstalk.com/what-makes-swarovski-better_topic19469.html
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 08:00
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I do indeed understand the law of diminshing returns in optics.  I own a Zeiss Diavari and several S&Bs but don't have a Swaro and would like to compare all three. But for over a 1K for a better erector sysytem, 30MM tube and a little better low end  (1.7-3x) seems like a lot with no claims of better low light perfromance.  BTW... FOV on 10X you get 11" advantage at 100yds between the Z6 and Z3. A Conquest is about 1K less than a Diavari but you get better glass and better coatings along with the 30mm tube, better FOV with the Diavari.

My thought is you either are getting a heck of a deal on high end glass with the Z3 ( and I understand they are on sale but if they were not the Z5 would cannibalize them anyway) compared to its peers or are paying way too much for a Z6 with a little better low end and tougher internals.

No matter, the Zeiss website hints of something new so I am going to hold off until after the SHOT announcements.

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 09:40
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Low light performance is a combo of exit pupil, glass quality, and glass coatings.  But once the exit pupil becomes larger than the pupil of your eye having a lower and lower mag is not going to make things any better in low light.  In reality turning it up to a certain point will give you more detail making the image look better.

So the 1.7x benefit is going to be FOV.  You compare the Z6s 75' FOV to the Diavaris 45', the difference is huge.  For some that won't really benefit them one bit.  For others like myself it is awesome.  I hunt in thick oak and pines were sometimes 20 yards is as far as I can see.  It can make a world of difference at those times.  I have not been able to shoot at a number or animals with my 4x and 3x scopes because I was to close and was not able to get a fast enough sight picture.  But the lower mag and larger FOV should help with that. 

With the z6 you also get a 1/4 inch more eye relief.  Not a lot, but that can make a diff on the heavy kickers.  Plus they still have more FOV at every magnification.  Usually scopes with the shorter eye relief have better FOV. 

The way I see it with the Z6 vs Z3 you get, 30mm tube which will be better for magnum rifles, better internals, wider mag range, more eye relief, better FOV, more reticle choices, an awesome ill system if you choose it. 

As far as optical quality goes between the big 3, that will always be up for debate.  Mostly because no one wants to admit that the $1500+ scope they bought is not the best of the best. 

When I chose the Swaro, it was partly because I got a great deal on it.  Second, was the 1.7x bottom end and the 40mm objective so I could keep it mounted real low.  Third, I knew it would have excellent glass. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 09:54
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Roger that....Although I think I talked myself into a Z3 or the Leica.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 10:10
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I would love to try a Leica as well.  That have a lot of good features for the money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2011 at 12:44
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Don't let the "same glass and coatings" thing screw up your thinking.  Image quality is influenced by the entire optical design -- number of lens elements used, lens geometry, lens spacing, quality of lens grind and polish, focal length, alignment precision, etc. etc., not just the glass and coatings used.

Just because a lower priced line uses the same glass type and coatings as a higher priced line doesn't mean they are optically equivalent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2011 at 12:53
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I would love to try a Leica as well.  That have a lot of good features for the money.


I have a 2.5-10X42 Leica ER.  It's fully the equal of Swaro, Zeiss, S&B, and any other high end scope you could compare it against, using pretty much any criteria you could possibly dream up for comparison.  As a bonus, it has greater eye relief and a longer main tube than it's competitors compared to its overall length.  Zeiss, Swaro, & S&B will each have certain strong points that will surpass Leica ER, but when you look at the overall package, it's at least on par and in some ways better than anything available in the world in the same price range.  It's all just a matter of what features you prefer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2011 at 13:44
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Don't let the "same glass and coatings" thing screw up your thinking.  Image quality is influenced by the entire optical design -- number of lens elements used, lens geometry, lens spacing, quality of lens grind and polish, focal length, alignment precision, etc. etc., not just the glass and coatings used.

Just because a lower priced line uses the same glass type and coatings as a higher priced line doesn't mean they are optically equivalent.

What he said. 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2012 at 06:48
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Tahqua, that link was good, not just to explain the Swaro system, but for the general internal workings of a scope.  I'd had it explained to me before, but seeing the illustrations popped a few pieces into place.  Thanks. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 15:48
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 I may have been a little prophetic.  Looks like they have discontinued the Z6i line.   All are 20% off with closeout pricing on SWFA.  Has anyone heard about a replacement?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2012 at 16:39
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I would love to try a Leica as well.  That have a lot of good features for the money.


I have a 2.5-10X42 Leica ER.  It's fully the equal of Swaro, Zeiss, S&B, and any other high end scope you could compare it against, using pretty much any criteria you could possibly dream up for comparison.  As a bonus, it has greater eye relief and a longer main tube than it's competitors compared to its overall length.  Zeiss, Swaro, & S&B will each have certain strong points that will surpass Leica ER, but when you look at the overall package, it's at least on par and in some ways better than anything available in the world in the same price range.  It's all just a matter of what features you prefer.


The Leica also has Aquadura hydrophobic coating. It is a very nice scope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 09:53
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i have a Z6 2-12x50 and its great, light for size, slim profile for a 50 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 10:19
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It looks like they are just replacing the 1-6 Z6i with a 2nd gen model.  And maybe doing away with the circle reticle version of the 1.7-10x.  Not discontinuing the whole line.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 10:25
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i think optics alot of stuff from the vx3/conquest price range are going TO do 99% OF ANYTHING YOU NEED...

the z6 gives edge sharpness on all powers even extreme low end unlike zeiss...also does it with a wider FOV than anything available...
what we cant see is the engineering, robustness, erector, etc...the 4 point coil spring is stout but is it worth the price difference?? thats something that is hard to measure
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