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Swarovski Z6 vs Zeiss Diavari FL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 14:54
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Im torn between the Swarovski 3-18X50 Z6 BR and the Zeiss Diavari 4-16X50 FL Rapid Z 800.
50/50 target and hunting. Short and long range.
The Swarovski has a better X range, but I believe the Zeiss may have the edge in image quality and low light capability. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Any optical distortion in the low X range with either of these scopes?
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 15:32
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The Z6 should have the better glass but not by much.  I think the reticle lines are a tad thin for my taste on the Z6 so my preference would be the Zeiss but both are so nice there is no wrong answer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 15:40
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Man I would sure like to be in your dilemma.  Me on the other hand, I am trying to decide if I should get a new water heater now or just keep running out of hot water in my showers til fall.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 15:51
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 I'm mostly worried about the low end distortion. My IOR 4-14X50 Tactical has some distortion at the low end which is very noticeable to me in the woods. It's great for long range target shooting, but the lower X doesn't cut it for hunting. Time for a replacement.
 Does the Swaro have any kind of protective outer lense coating?
 I do like the Z800 reticle better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 16:03
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The Swaro site has no information about the lense coatings.
Nothing about the length of warranty either.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 16:30
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

The Z6 should have the better glass but not by much.  I think the reticle lines are a tad thin for my taste on the Z6 so my preference would be the Zeiss but both are so nice there is no wrong answer.



Really? I compared my Diavari to a friend's Z6 and i like my glass better, both are superb, I thought color was better on the Zeiss.  And the lotutek coating is worth the price of admission.

To each, his own.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 16:38
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Originally posted by Scottyman Scottyman wrote:

 I'm mostly worried about the low end distortion. My IOR 4-14X50 Tactical has some distortion at the low end which is very noticeable to me in the woods. It's great for long range target shooting, but the lower X doesn't cut it for hunting. Time for a replacement.
 Does the Swaro have any kind of protective outer lense coating?
 I do like the Z800 reticle better.
 
 
Z6 is better on the low end, with a wider FOV, less tunnel vision, and sharper image out to the edge of the field.  Both are pretty much equal in terms of linear distortion.  Diavari FL has a hydrophobic outer lens coating (what they call "LotuTec"), Z6 does not.  I like the Zeiss reticle choices better.  If you opt for illumination, I like Z6's illumination system MUCH better.  Either are fantastic scopes and it's doubtful you'd be disappointed with either.  There truly is no wrong answer here.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 18:56
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neither scopes will give the tunnel vision of the Ior so your safe, but the Zeiss and I'm assuming your talking about the new flourite lens one  would get my vote, better turrets by far and the Z800 reticle is outstanding.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2010 at 23:24
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Both scopes are great. If you think the lines are to thin in the Z6 the Z 800 will be more confusing in low light or with a complicated background. I really like the Z800 for the adaptability for ballistics. Its great for open ground but in cover it is slower to find. When you get to this level neither is a poor choice. You just have to decide which is better more of the time for your needs.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 07:38
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RifleDude nailed it.
 For low light image contrast and resolution the Swarovski is superior, to the point where even I can see the difference, but the same may not be true during daylight hours.
For the stated purpose, the Diavari's Z800 reticle and Lotutec coatings are a plus, but just buy the scope that floats your boat and you will have made the right choice.

You won't have any worries about either brand's warranty.

Can't decide between 'em?
Make yourself a truth table and tally all the features that win you over for each scope.
Toss a coin on ties. Or...
Buy 'em both. Get yourself another rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 08:06
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the z6 might have better glass than the Diavari-- might--- but the Fl (Flouride) don't think so.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 12:13
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I agree with Rifledude but everyone eyes see things differently.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 12:28
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I just noticed the question was about the "FL" version of the Diavari.  I saw those at SHOT and was very impressed, but haven't seen them outside a building.  I would say it all depends on whether or not extensive knob cranking and ranging will be involved, such as in field tactical application.  If so, the Diavari FL is much better suited to this.  I especially like the locking sleeve on the knobs.  The FL scopes looked much like the Hensoldts overall.  I still think the Z6 is better than Diavaris in general on the low end of the power range.  Z6 is almost without comparison on edge to edge clarity and lack of tunnel effect at the low end of the power range.  On the upper end, I think they are equivalent.  I also think Z6 has the best illumination system I've seen if you want a lit reticle model.  Not a big fan of Zeiss's illumination controls.  In terms of reticles and knobs, I like the Diavari FL better, and assuming the FL version is a step up from the standard Diavari, it may have superior glass overall, but can't confirm.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 12:38
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

I just noticed the question was about the "FL" version of the Diavari.  I saw those at SHOT and was very impressed, but haven't seen them outside a building.  I would say it all depends on whether or not extensive knob cranking and ranging will be involved, such as in field tactical application.  If so, the Diavari FL is much better suited to this.  I especially like the locking sleeve on the knobs.  The FL scopes looked much like the Hensoldts overall.  I still think the Z6 is better than Diavaris in general on the low end of the power range.  Z6 is almost without comparison on edge to edge clarity and lack of tunnel effect at the low end of the power range.  On the upper end, I think they are equivalent.  I also think Z6 has the best illumination system I've seen if you want a lit reticle model.  Not a big fan of Zeiss's illumination controls.  In terms of reticles and knobs, I like the Diavari FL better, and assuming the FL version is a step up from the standard Diavari, it may have superior glass overall, but can't confirm.
Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 12:41
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I called Swarovski last year and was told the Z6 glass is the same as the Zeiss FL.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 15:06
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 I'm going to have to compare them side by side in my scope tester. I have a few more months before I decide. Maybe a dealer will be generous enough to send them to me to evaluate.
 I've always been a Zeiss Diavari fan since I had the 2.5-10X50 a few years ago. Couldn't get use to the FFP reticle. Sold it.   
 Did Swaro really improve the PH (now Z6) that much to surpass the Diavari in FOV(and other areas)? The Diavari did have the advantage in FOV and was equal or slightly better in low light when comparing it to the PH.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 15:47
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Originally posted by Scottyman Scottyman wrote:

 I'm going to have to compare them side by side in my scope tester. I have a few more months before I decide. Maybe a dealer will be generous enough to send them to me to evaluate.
 I've always been a Zeiss Diavari fan since I had the 2.5-10X50 a few years ago. Couldn't get use to the FFP reticle. Sold it.   
 Did Swaro really improve the PH (now Z6) that much to surpass the Diavari in FOV(and other areas)? The Diavari did have the advantage in FOV and was equal or slightly better in low light when comparing it to the PH.
 


Yes, Swaro really improved on the z6.
 
Please read Ted's posts again and go from there. Their honest, unbiased, and always "spot-on".  Excellent

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:


Z6 is better on the low end, with a wider FOV, less tunnel vision, and sharper image out to the edge of the field.  Both are pretty much equal in terms of linear distortion.  Diavari FL has a hydrophobic outer lens coating (what they call "LotuTec"), Z6 does not.  I like the Zeiss reticle choices better.  If you opt for illumination, I like Z6's illumination system MUCH better.  Either are fantastic scopes and it's doubtful you'd be disappointed with either.  There truly is no wrong answer here.


Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

I just noticed the question was about the "FL" version of the Diavari.  I saw those at SHOT and was very impressed, but haven't seen them outside a building.  I would say it all depends on whether or not extensive knob cranking and ranging will be involved, such as in field tactical application.  If so, the Diavari FL is much better suited to this.  I especially like the locking sleeve on the knobs.  The FL scopes looked much like the Hensoldts overall.  I still think the Z6 is better than Diavaris in general on the low end of the power range.  Z6 is almost without comparison on edge to edge clarity and lack of tunnel effect at the low end of the power range.  On the upper end, I think they are equivalent.  I also think Z6 has the best illumination system I've seen if you want a lit reticle model.  Not a big fan of Zeiss's illumination controls.  In terms of reticles and knobs, I like the Diavari FL better, and assuming the FL version is a step up from the standard Diavari, it may have superior glass overall, but can't confirm.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 17:14
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Ted is spot on in his assessment.  Personally though, Zeiss Diavari FL impressed the hell out of me.   The choice depends on the usage.  If you expect to spend a lot of time at high magnification, I like the Zeiss FL.  If you expect to mostly use it at mid-low magnification, then Z6 is likely better.

Oh, and they do NOT have the same glass.  Both have glass made by Schott, but that is the extend of the similarity.  This particular model of Z6 does use ED glass for one of th elenses in the objective system, but it is an entirely different design and even the type of ED glass used is different.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 17:52
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Definately will have to compare side by side at this price point.

50/50 usage. Target highX/Hunting low to mid and some high X.
 
I'm biased towards the Zeiss, but will have to see the Swaro before deciding.
 
Know any generous dealers that will allow you to try it before you buy it? :)
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2010 at 18:42
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the z6 isn't an updated ph, different animal. z6 has a unique 4 coil erector set up that pushes against the ocular assembly to keep zero. higher ratio in the erector 6x, and the low end is the best out there. but the top end is at least in my 2x12 isn't that outstanding. The fast focus in my diavaris are more positive and solid than my z6 (actually wobbles after approx. 3000 rds) and the turrets are alot better. Quite a few dealers out there that will let you demo. Most require a full deposit and/or return within the time frame of that states lemon laws.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2010 at 05:11
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 Didn't the PH also have the 4 coil erector?
 What exactly aren't you impressed with in the top end of your Z6? Sharpness, resolution...?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2010 at 12:57
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Ted is spot on in his assessment.  Personally though, Zeiss Diavari FL impressed the hell out of me.   The choice depends on the usage.  If you expect to spend a lot of time at high magnification, I like the Zeiss FL.  If you expect to mostly use it at mid-low magnification, then Z6 is likely better.

Oh, and they do NOT have the same glass.  Both have glass made by Schott, but that is the extend of the similarity.  This particular model of Z6 does use ED glass for one of th elenses in the objective system, but it is an entirely different design and even the type of ED glass used is different. 

ILya
Well, ILya, I guess the guy from Swarovski was mistaken on what glass was used in his scope.  I called Swarovski Optik in Germany and spoke to the gentleman on the phone for about 30 minutes.  He told me the Swarovski Z6 glass in the 2.5-15 and above scopes was the same as the Zeiss FL glass.  I said "the same glass", he said "yes, the same glass".  There was a bit of a language barrier and it IS possible that his comments were meant to convey "same quality".  But he said "same glass"...


Edited by Kickboxer - June/19/2010 at 14:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2010 at 16:46
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Ted is spot on in his assessment.  Personally though, Zeiss Diavari FL impressed the hell out of me.   The choice depends on the usage.  If you expect to spend a lot of time at high magnification, I like the Zeiss FL.  If you expect to mostly use it at mid-low magnification, then Z6 is likely better.

Oh, and they do NOT have the same glass.  Both have glass made by Schott, but that is the extend of the similarity.  This particular model of Z6 does use ED glass for one of th elenses in the objective system, but it is an entirely different design and even the type of ED glass used is different. 

ILya
Well, ILya, I guess the guy from Swarovski was mistaken on what glass was used in his scope.  I called Swarovski Optik in Germany and spoke to the gentleman on the phone for about 30 minutes.  He told me the Swarovski Z6 glass in the 2.5-15 and above scopes was the same as the Zeiss FL glass.  I said "the same glass", he said "yes, the same glass".  There was a bit of a language barrier and it IS possible that his comments were meant to convey "same quality".  But he said "same glass"...

Swarovski Optik is headquartered in Austria, so I assume you called there.

They both use Schott glass, and they both use a version of extra-low dispersion glass for one of the elements.  In that regard, it is the same glass.  However, in that same regard, another twenty different scopes out there also have the same glass.  Schott makes a lot of glass for a lot of companies.

What you rep meant (and I verified this at SHOT, you can check my write-up) is that all Z6 scopes with top magnification of 15x and above use ED glass of some sort.  However, the optical system between the two scopes is entirely different.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2010 at 19:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2010 at 20:30
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Scottyman,
I apologize- didn't notice that you had said Diavari FL and I made a statement about the Z6 being superior to the Diavari in low light.
I'd correct that to say superior to the Diavari T as I'm unfamiliar with the FL model

Your eyes may see things differently.
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