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Swarovski/Kahles ??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 06:17
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I have a Swarovski PV 2-12X50 on a Tikka .270 WSM. It has Leupold rings/bases set high enough for a 56mm scope to be mounted. I have no problem with the ring height or shooting the gun.

I think the Swarovski is good in low light but I do think I can get slightly better with a Kahles or definately Zeiss Victory in a 3-12x56 scope. My main gripe with my Swaro. is the #7 recticle it has.........not the best in real low light and the deer around here start coming out at dark 30 after the first month of hunting season. So I want to go with a thicker recticle.
 
Anyway, I believe I can sell my Swarovski and get a Kahles 3-12x56 off the samplelist and not be out any money ! Would you guys do that in my shoes ?? I don't think the ole lady's gonna let me fork out the cash on a Victory right now !!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 06:29
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Do you have a PV or Z6 Swaro?  They don't offer a 2-12X50 in the PV series, but they do in Z6.  If PV, it should be 3-12X50.
 
If you have a PV, you should have a 1st focal plane reticle, so the reticle should thicken as you increase magnification.  The Z6 has a 2nd plane reticle, though.  If you have the FFP reticle, I would keep the Swaro you have.  I can't tell a noticeable difference in low light performance between Swaro and Kahles, and personally, I don't like objectives larger than 50mm on a hunting rifle, so that would be part of my reasoning as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 08:47
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Maybe it is a 3-12 (can't think of a time I ever used it under 6x)........it's definately a PV ! Recticle just doesn't work for me ...........but of course I'm trying to get something that work's well in extreme conditions (pretty much dark)! I am not going to be hunting after dark but definately until the last possible shed of light is left !!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 09:40
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If your not happy with the reticle you can always change it. I just did it and the entire process for the scope shipping from West Coast to East Coast, them doing the reticle change, and shipping it back was just over two weeks. I went from a plex to a 4a.  SONA customer service is awesome!!

I agree with Ted's (RifleDude's) recommendations about your having already the FFP and if your using this for hunting not getting a 56mm.

Bottom line is you have one of the best scopes out there, just change the reticle if you don't like it.


Edited by mike650 - June/19/2008 at 09:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 10:12
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How did you go about getting the recticle changed ? How much does it cost for just the recticle change no shipping ?
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 11:36
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All you have to do is call or email Swarovski Optik North America (SONA) at 800-426-3089 or warrantyrepair@swarovskioptic.us and tell them you want to change out your reticle and which reticle you want.  They will give you a quoted price for the modification and an RMA # to print on your package, which you will then ship to 2 Slater Rd., Cranston, RI 02920.  The work usually won't take very long to complete, and they will very thoroughly check out your scope to make sure everything is in proper working order in the process.
 
If you want a different reticle, I would definitely go this route rather than change scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 12:30
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

All you have to do is call or email Swarovski Optik North America (SONA) at 800-426-3089 or warrantyrepair@swarovskioptic.us and tell them you want to change out your reticle and which reticle you want.  They will give you a quoted price for the modification and an RMA # to print on your package, which you will then ship to 2 Slater Rd., Cranston, RI 02920.  The work usually won't take very long to complete, and they will very thoroughly check out your scope to make sure everything is in proper working order in the process.
 
If you want a different reticle, I would definitely go this route rather than change scopes.


I sent a z6 back so the price may differ for a PH . The info Ted provided you above is correct. I called the 800 number and the only shipping cost was my sending the scope to SONA but make sure to insure for the cost of a new scope just in case the shipper looses the package in transit.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 13:03
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Thanks again ! I may just go this route !!
 
I am curious though..........if it would not cost me any money to trade why would the Swarovski be better than the Kahles ?
 
If they have comparable glass and seemingly fall into the same level of quality (at least from a layman's perspective)then why would the Swarovski be the better choice ? Is there something in the internals of the Swarovski that's better/tougher than a Kahles ?
 
Just seems to me that if I could get a bigger Kahles for the same money I would be better off ...........unless I am missing something . Which to be honest, I know very little about scope internals ! Like I said.....the ring height is already high so changing to a 56mm is not going to change the scope height..........it has not been an issue for me !
 
Thanks again...............just curious what benefits you guys see in the Swarovski !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 13:42
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Head to head (Kahles or Swarovski) the optics are about the same, the real big difference is the price and right now customer service. A 56mm is an even larger objective than your 50mm, bulkier when hunting, weight balance with your rifle could come into play, etc. Bottom line, it's really up to you what you want. It sounds like you really want a 56mm scope so get the 56mm scope. Big%20Smile


Edited by mike650 - June/19/2008 at 14:52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 16:36
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Originally posted by cbm cbm wrote:

I am curious though..........if it would not cost me any money to trade why would the Swarovski be better than the Kahles ?
 
If they have comparable glass and seemingly fall into the same level of quality (at least from a layman's perspective)then why would the Swarovski be the better choice ? Is there something in the internals of the Swarovski that's better/tougher than a Kahles ?
 
Just seems to me that if I could get a bigger Kahles for the same money I would be better off ...........unless I am missing something .
 
Speaking for myself, I just don't like 56mm objective scopes on a hunting rifle, regardless of the ring height or clearance you currently have.  To my eyes, it looks odd on a rifle, and in fact even 50mm is borderline too large for my tastes.  I like keeping my rig as trim as possible, without unreasonable sacrifices in optical quality.  I don't think the Swaro is either better or worse than the Kahles.  I think they are pretty evenly matched scopes.  One other thing to consider is, at least currently, Swaro has superior customer service.  Kahles' CS took a bit of a nosedive once Legacy Sports took over importation of their scopes in the US.  Maybe this will change in the not too distant future, but right now, they don't seem to have any product knowledge of Kahles optics, and they don't do service work here in the states, so optics have to be sent to Austria if service is needed.  I'm as big a fan of Kahles as anyone, but I think Legacy isn't doing them any favors right now.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 16:40
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Hey Ted, do you know if Swaro does the reticle change thing like Leupold does?
 
Roy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 17:23
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Hey Ted, do you know if Swaro does the reticle change thing like Leupold does?
 
Roy


uh-oh  Get%20Your%20Popcorn%20Ready
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 17:29
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Hey Ted, do you know if Swaro does the reticle change thing like Leupold does?
 
Roy
Yes, they offer reticle changes, and that was an option presented.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 21:31
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Hey Ted, do you know if Swaro does the reticle change thing like Leupold does?
 
Roy
Yes, they offer reticle changes, and that was an option presented.
 
Thousand pardons, sir.     Big%20Grin Gee, wasn't like that info was burried in a 100 posts. Maybe I'm getting old.................
 
Roy


Edited by Roy Finn - June/19/2008 at 21:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2008 at 22:33
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Hey Ted, do you know if Swaro does the reticle change thing like Leupold does?
 
Roy
Yes, they offer reticle changes, and that was an option presented.
 
Thousand pardons, sir.     Big%20Grin Gee, wasn't like that info was burried in a 100 posts. Maybe I'm getting old.................
 
Roy


Don't feel bad, I do that all the time!! Big%20Smile

This is actually a relief,  thought you had some bad news about reticle changes. Dead

Big%20Grin


Edited by mike650 - June/19/2008 at 22:43
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2008 at 13:42
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Hey Ted, do you know if Swaro does the reticle change thing like Leupold does?
 
Roy
Yes, they offer reticle changes, and that was an option presented.
 
Thousand pardons, sir.     Big%20Grin Gee, wasn't like that info was burried in a 100 posts. Maybe I'm getting old.................
 
Roy
 
Not even the first pardon was necessary, buddy! Smile  You're not the only one in the "getting old" boat...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2008 at 21:05
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Hey Ted, do you know if Swaro does the reticle change thing like Leupold does?
 
Roy
Yes, they offer reticle changes, and that was an option presented.
 
Thousand pardons, sir.     Big%20Grin Gee, wasn't like that info was burried in a 100 posts. Maybe I'm getting old.................
 
Roy
 
Not even the first pardon was necessary, buddy! Smile  You're not the only one in the "getting old" boat...


That sometimes involves getting rectal changes
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2008 at 18:54
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Hey Ted, do you know if Swaro does the reticle change thing like Leupold does?
 
Roy
Yes, they offer reticle changes, and that was an option presented.
 
Thousand pardons, sir.     Big%20Grin Gee, wasn't like that info was burried in a 100 posts. Maybe I'm getting old.................
 
Roy
 
Not even the first pardon was necessary, buddy! Smile  You're not the only one in the "getting old" boat...


That sometimes involves getting rectal changes
Loco hmmm... I don't think I like the sound of that...Yikes
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2008 at 19:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2008 at 21:31
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Well , I ordered a Zeiss Diavari 3-12x56 Illuminated reticle................but after the impulsiveness started wearing off I started realizing how expensive that was going to be "and" it got back ordered ........and I changed my mind once again!! LOL
 
So I went back to plan "A" and ordered the Kahles 3-12x56 #4a off the sample list !
 
I was really suprised at how good of shape it is in...........appears to be practically new at this point . I spent a lot of time this evening comparing it against my Sworavski PV 3-12X50 Plex.
 
I was kinda suprised at what I saw. The Swarovski is very nice but it has had an irretating glare problem, always has bothered me on 12 power , and the plex seems to be too thin in extremely low light !!
I figured "if" the Kahles is about the same in low light or any improvement.........and I can see the 4a better ............it was worth the trade.
 
Suprisingly to me.............the Kahles has a crisper/more clear look to it . I'd say things look a little more defined. At 10 minutes to dark/dark...........the Kahles really was much better on 12 power as far as clarity and definition . My Swarovski on 12 at the same time was hazey looking and not nearly as defined. I was very suprised by this..........and considering most of my shots are in "this" type of light............I think it will be a nice improvement.
 
 
The glare that has bugged me is evidentally light coming in behind me. I makes a very white glaring spot on my Swarovski lense. The Kahles had the same spot ..........but it was a darker purple color and was not nearly as noticable.
 
Things were starting to be extremely pro-Kahles at this point. But when it came down to rediculously low light the Swaro started holding it's own. I would say the Kahles is marginally better but I would assume this is do to the bigger lense . And the 4a does out do the plex once things get to "extreme low light" but not as much as I expected.
 
So overall I think I will really like the new scope. I still have that dang  Diavari in the back of my head but have a hard time believing that they are worth twice or more as much ?? Guess I will never know until I get one................but I just don't think that will be anytime soon !! I bought a NIB Sako 75 Grey wolf .30-06 also............so I think I will have a nice package once I get it together.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2008 at 18:01
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Sounds great, cbm!  Be sure and post pics when you get your rig assembled.
 
I have compared my Zeiss Diavari with my Kahles C (both in 2.5-10X50) head to head quite extensively, and I think these two series are very evenly matched.  Optically, I would give the Zeiss a very slight edge in almost all respects except flare when looking toward low angle sunlight, where the Kahles is superior.  I much prefer Kahles W/E turrets to the Zeiss.  Kahles has more "tunnel vision" below 3X than Zeiss.  I could not discern any difference whatsoever in low light performance between the two and I judged resolution to be even.  Zeiss seemed to have slightly more vibrant color rendition and higher contrast.
 
I certainly don't think the Diavari is 2X better than the Kahles C (at SL pricing), and I don't think you are missing out on anything by going with the Kahles instead of the Zeiss.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2008 at 18:12
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Thanks man !! I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help and advise !! I have read over a lot of your posts on optics lately searching for info. on scopes and binoculars and it sure seems like you know what's going on !!
 
I will definately post pic's !!
 
Now I have to make a binocular decision ..................seriously leaning toward the Leica Ultravid BR 10x42 !! Just don't see how I could go wrong with them for the price they are right now since the HD's came out !!
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