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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 06:14
manderson View Drop Down
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Has anyone had the opportunity to compare Swarovski glass between their different product lines?  Specifically, is the glass significantly better quality on the flagship Z6i as opposed to the Z3 and Z5 models?
 
I am trying to pick out a long range target scope for a Sako 85 Hunter in .270 Win caliber.  I am considering the Swarovski 3-18x50 Z6i P L 2nd Gen with BRH-I reticle.  But if the glass quality is pretty close, I might want to think about the Z5.
 
Thanks for any input.
 
Mark A.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 07:02
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Glass quality is always a "toss up" question.  Some people will not see the differences, some imagine differences, and some differences are infinitesimally observable.  The Z6i glass/coatings are the "best available", according to Swarovski.  There is a difference from Z5 line.  However, if I were you, I would try very hard to evaluate them side by side before making the leap to Z6i.  Z5 quality is VERY good. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 09:21
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Mark what Kickboxer stated is very very accurate.
 
When evaluating things side by side depending on what you are looking through and the type of light supplied, appearances can be deceptive.  Last year, I had a guy I was speaking with at a show and he told me that to his eye the Nikon Monarch was the most appealing scope on the market.  It had been the sharpest thing he had ever used.
 
He told me when he was looking through it at the store, it was the brightest thing there.
 
I then proceeded to explain to him, that he was not using natural light and while artificial light is not optimum to evaluate optics.
 
I have used Swarovski products on several occasions, and I have to say they are certainly the best thing that I have ever had the opportunity to use.
 
 
When looking through them and comparing the difference to others. The main thing that I noticed was peripheral field of view is sharper with Swarovski.  From edge to edge, there is nothing I have used that not only provides a sharp crisp target image, but also affects the entire field of view.
 
But then it my just be my eyes.
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 09:40
manderson View Drop Down
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Thanks.  Good advice appreciated.  Would love to compare side by side, but unfortunately no one carries Swarovski in stock around here (Baltimore area), and I've never seen any at my range.  Will have to give it more thought.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 10:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 10:58
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The first time I ever fell off my chair when comparing scopes years ago was when the man in the store handed me a Swarovski.  I was looking out an immense picture window at the World outside.  

After he showed me every brand imaginable, I said " Let me see that Swarovski"....I couldn't believe the difference.  


I still can't afford one.  I'm sure the Zeiss, and the Schmidt and Benders, and Leicas would be that way, too.  


That original Swarovski was $800 back then....now they are Two Thousand bucks!  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 12:47
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I've been going through a similar analysis between their Z3, Z5 and Z6 line.

While comparing them side by side inside a store, I was hard pressed to tell the difference between any of those lines.  At least enough to justify the price steps between them.

Differences are more about features such as erectors, side focus, illumination...etc with some different coating on the Z6.

Here is a related thread:


I ended up with one of their Z3 3-9X and recently purchased a 3-10X that was on the Sample List.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 14:51
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All Swarovski rifle scopes use the same glass and coatings except for the 2.5-15X and higher magnification scopes in the Z6 line that have "HD" glass elements added to the optical system.

However, keep in mind that just because two scopes being compared have the same glass type(s) and coatings formulation doesn't mean they will have the same level of optical quality. This is a common misconception. Optical performance is also influenced by the overall optical design, including the number of lens elements, arrangement of those lens elements, lens geometry, focal lengths, positioning of the varying glass types used, alignment precision, lens grinding and polish quality, internal baffling, and on and on. In fact, those things have a larger impact on optical performance than the raw glass used.

Although all Swarovski scopes are high end, the Z6 line has a touch better resolution than Z3 and Z5, in addition to broader zoom range, greater FOV, and wider center field "sweet spot."

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 15:29
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A 270 for long range target work? Or do you just want a long range target scope?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 16:10
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

A 270 for long range target work? Or do you just want a long range target scope?
 
Yes, I want to use the 270 for long range target shooting.  I know there is some debate about whether or not it is a good cartridge for this, but I think the 270 has gotten a bad rap in this area.  I think it will be great for 500-600 yards.  And from what I have read, the biggest problem is match grade ammunition availability.  I have a bunch of the Hornady 130 gr SST Superformance.  And I have quite a few friends who reload, so all I would need are the dies.  Either way, investing in a good scope is still a good idea since it can always be put on another rifle.
 
I spoke with Swarovski and they were very helpful.  Their rep explained the supposed improvement with the HD glass, i.e. better color, sharper image and better resolution.  However, he said that in truth, I would be hard pressed to notice the difference between Z5 and Z6.  He recommended the Z5 3.5-18x44 BRH.  The Z5 line does not have an illuminated reticle, and frankly I don't know that I need it.  He said I should consider the Z6 only if I was very serious about shooting out to 1000 yards.
 
Since I am relatively new at this, I think the best bet is the Z5 and stick to 300-500 yards.  If it gets serious, then it will be time to invest in new equipment.
 
RifleDude - The Swarovski rep touched on many of the same issues you mentioned that affect optical quality.  I was very impressed with the honesty and level of knowledge.  We went over the whole BDC reticle/turret thing.  It does seem to be the way scopes are going these days.  Still not sure if it's right for me, but that's another issue.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 16:20
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This may be helpful with the BRH reticle



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 18:10
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Originally posted by Marine24 Marine24 wrote:

This may be helpful with the BRH reticle


Or, you can use a ballistic calculator of your choice since the BRH is subtended in MILs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2014 at 20:43
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Now that makes things easier
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2014 at 10:19
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I have a Z5 and Z6 both and can't tell much difference between them.  The Ballistic Turret is a good thing too!  Their ballistic program worked pretty good for what i load. They are serious money but once you look thru one it's hard to go back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2014 at 20:06
manderson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by okc4956 okc4956 wrote:

I have a Z5 and Z6 both and can't tell much difference between them.  The Ballistic Turret is a good thing too!  Their ballistic program worked pretty good for what i load. They are serious money but once you look thru one it's hard to go back.
I'm not a Leupold basher.  I have a VX-III on my Cooper 22LR and it works well.  But the Z5 I'm looking at is around the same price as a comparable VX-6.  I can't imagine they are both in the same league.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2014 at 09:24
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Depends on what you mean by "same league"?  The VX6 is much more user friendly than the Swaro stuff...any of them.  As a matter of fact it's the most user friendly variable I've ever owned or used, especially at higher mags.  Great glass as well, and in marginal light the duplex reticle in a VX6 is far superior to any duplex Swaro has.  There is much more to a hunting scope than just optics IMO.  The optics in the 2-12 VX6 I own are fantastic though, as verified again for the umpteenth time a couple of weeks ago while spending 9 days in Namibia, and 12 animals later. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2014 at 13:54
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

There is much more to a hunting scope than just optics IMO.
But this is a target scope.  Now you've got me thinking about the VX-6 again.  The right rifle scope is a very difficult decision.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2014 at 07:30
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Leupold 4-24x52 VX-6 34mm RiflescopeLeupold 4-24x52 VX-6 34mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU115009
  • Matte
  • TMOA
  • 34mm
  • Side Focus
  • Xtended Twilight Lens System
  • DiamondCoat 2
  • Lead Free
  • Blackened Lens Edges
  • Twin Bias Spring Erector System
  • Extreme Fast-Focus Eyepiece
  • Bullet Drop Compensation
  • 2nd Generation Argon/Krypton Waterproofing
  • Generous Eyebox
  • CDS (Custom Dial System)
  • Dual Use (Long-Range Hunting and Varminting)
  • 1/4 MOA Target
  • Waterproof/Fogproof
$1,399.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2014 at 16:56
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Depends on what you mean by "same league"?  The VX6 is much more user friendly than the Swaro stuff...any of them.  As a matter of fact it's the most user friendly variable I've ever owned or used, especially at higher mags.  Great glass as well, and in marginal light the duplex reticle in a VX6 is far superior to any duplex Swaro has.  There is much more to a hunting scope than just optics IMO.  The optics in the 2-12 VX6 I own are fantastic though, as verified again for the umpteenth time a couple of weeks ago while spending 9 days in Namibia, and 12 animals later. 

I have the VX6 2-12X42 Fire Dot Duplex and agree with you. The optics are the equal of the Leica ER 2-10x42 I also own and actually have less distortion. Some of the European stuff is a little overrated IMHO.

The Leupold Fire Dot illumination is very, very good and doesn't distract from the overall lines and profile of the scope too much. Can't say the same as regards Swaro or the Leica Magnus.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/21/2014 at 17:23
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I really like the Firedot on my, admittedly inferior VX-R. I think Leupold knocked it out the park with the advent of the Firedot. 

I've had an array of illuminated reticles from BAD to quite good, (S&B L7) and the Firedot just simply WORKS. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2014 at 07:08
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What do you think of the 34mm tube on the VX-6 line?  I've heard others say it's a little too big.  Is there better definition and clarity?
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