New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Swaro or other?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Swaro or other?

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2012 at 12:04
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5431
Here is what I am looking at.  I am trying to rescope my 300 WM.  This is my go to gun right now for big game hunting with my 270 as my second.  I had a SS 5-20 on it, but that got moved to my 338 LM recently.  I have a second SS 5-20 but think I may put that on my 22-250.  I would be taking a Burris XTR 3-12 of that gun.  I also have a Burris Black Diamond 4-16 that sat on the 300 for a long time. So I have options.

As said, my primary use for the gun now is hunting, although I have done a bit of long range with it.  I mainly hunt elk and deer, but also hunt bear, antelope, mountain lion, wolf, etc.  I hunt open plains and woods, daylight to dusk.

What I have in mind though is a Swaro 2.5-15x44 with the 4a reticle and the ballistic turret.  I would be ok with illumination as well.  Are there other scopes I should look at comparable to this, or should I use one of my other scopes?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2012 at 12:15
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Online
Points: 9533
I sure like my Swaro, it really does make all my other scopes look bad.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2012 at 12:31
stickbow46 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/07/2009
Location: Benton, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 4673
I have a Swaro Z6I 2-12x50 with 4A ret & BT's that I'm  very happy with.I also have a S&B Zenith 3-12x50 with FD#9 illum that I like a little more than the Swaro.Don't over look the Leica's & Premier Hunter ,these will both hold their own with anything made period.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2012 at 20:33
gulf1263 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: June/15/2011
Location: Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 212
IMHO if you are actually going to be hunting in a variety of terrain you will need less power on the high end and a wider field of view on the lower end.
I would look at the Swaro 1.7-10 x44 (not sure if that is the correct objective size).
Under real hunting conditions with wind etc. shooting from sticks or having to take a running shoot a smaller and lighter scope is actually an advantage since it helps with rifle balance.
In training and classes under fairly good conditions, (no blowing snow, rain, sleet or hail, no charging or running game) the big scopes did not do so well.
The military snipers are another story, how many hunters train to the standards of the Scout Sniper, SEAL, Delta, SAS or other elite units that successfully use the big scopes.
Most real people, under real conditions, firing from a field position are lucky to make a fatal shot at 400 yards, throw in any nasty weather or moving animals and the shot has to be much closer.
IMHO the Swaro 1.7-10 is an excellent compromise, light, bright, great field of view on the lower end and enough magnification on the top end, illumination and many different reticles to choose from.
Unfortunately, they are not cheap.
Good luck on whatever you choose.
Art

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2012 at 20:33
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 12712
Andrew, personally I think you'll love that scope.   Thunbs Up


I have the 2-12x50 as well (standard model with 4 reticle) on my go to rifle but would upgrade to the 2.5-15x44 in a heart beat if Swaro still made a sun shade for it. Sounds silly but it's a deal breaker for me and my hunting needs. Hear that Swarovski !!! Bandito
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2012 at 20:53
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5431
Originally posted by gulf1263 gulf1263 wrote:

IMHO if you are actually going to be hunting in a variety of terrain you will need less power on the high end and a wider field of view on the lower end.
I would look at the Swaro 1.7-10 x44 (not sure if that is the correct objective size).
I have actually considered that scope.  I even tested on a test deal from SWFA several years ago and fell so in love with the glass I have wanted a Swaro Z6 since then.  The 1.7 on the low end is nice, but I have never felt I needed less than the 2.5 unless I was running my 15 in a building.  I have had several occasions that I have been super glad to have more than 10x on top.  Once it kept me from shooting a cow on a longer elk shot.

Originally posted by gulf1263 gulf1263 wrote:

Under real hunting conditions with wind etc. shooting from sticks or having to take a running shoot a smaller and lighter scope is actually an advantage since it helps with rifle balance.
In training and classes under fairly good conditions, (no blowing snow, rain, sleet or hail, no charging or running game) the big scopes did not do so well.
As for weight between the two, 3 oz doesn't matter to me.  I am used to heavier scopes on my 300 WM.  SS 5-20 and BD 4-16s.  Never bothered my balance to much since it isn't a light gun.

Originally posted by gulf1263 gulf1263 wrote:

Most real people, under real conditions, firing from a field position are lucky to make a fatal shot at 400 yards, throw in any nasty weather or moving animals and the shot has to be much closer.
Some can some can't.  I practice lots of positions and conditions.  I am no expert, but I can shoot.  I also guided elk hunts for 5 years.  You can tell the guys that practice and those that don't.  I don't ever intend to take a shot on a animal that I am not practiced at or confident I can drop the animal humanely.

The 1.7-10 is still an option and one I am still considering.  If I was building a lighter weight 300 for only hunting and no long range shooting that would be my 1st choice.  I do have a soft spot for 3-15s and 4-16s because I have hunted so much with them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2012 at 12:27
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Staff
TEAM SWFA - Staff
Avatar
MODERATOR

Joined: August/13/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3063
I love my Swaro! Yippee 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2012 at 12:58
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 10978
If you want a Swaro, get a Swaro.  It is as simple in that.  If you already fell in love with that scope, nothing else will probably do.

All that having been said, I am testing a couple of Leica scopes and I am quite impressed with it.

For a hunting rifle with occasional extended range aspirations, the 3.5-14x42 with exposed turret is a very good option.

At the moment, I am testing this configuration:

I first put it onto my 22-250 for turret testing and it is a little too small for a heavy barrel varminter, but optically superb and dead nuts reliable.

It is probably a better fit for a hunting rifle and I will likely set it up for my 280Rem for the rest of the tests.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2012 at 14:19
JGRaider View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: February/06/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1432
How much adjustment does that Leica have?  How much per 1 turn of the dial?  Zero stop?  Thanks for the help. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2012 at 19:36
gulf1263 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: June/15/2011
Location: Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 212
I love my Swaro's, great optics and great illumination.
As Ilya said, if you want a Swaro, get a Swaro, you will not be dissapointed.
Art
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2012 at 21:27
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5431
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If you want a Swaro, get a Swaro.  It is as simple in that.  If you already fell in love with that scope, nothing else will probably do.

All that having been said, I am testing a couple of Leica scopes and I am quite impressed with it.

For a hunting rifle with occasional extended range aspirations, the 3.5-14x42 with exposed turret is a very good option.

At the moment, I am testing this configuration:

I first put it onto my 22-250 for turret testing and it is a little too small for a heavy barrel varminter, but optically superb and dead nuts reliable.

It is probably a better fit for a hunting rifle and I will likely set it up for my 280Rem for the rest of the tests.

ILya

How is the glass compared to a Swaro?  Looked at the link but don't see any pics of it or the reticle.  How heavy is that reticle? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 03:48
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 10978
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If you want a Swaro, get a Swaro.  It is as simple in that.  If you already fell in love with that scope, nothing else will probably do.

All that having been said, I am testing a couple of Leica scopes and I am quite impressed with it.

For a hunting rifle with occasional extended range aspirations, the 3.5-14x42 with exposed turret is a very good option.

At the moment, I am testing this configuration:

I first put it onto my 22-250 for turret testing and it is a little too small for a heavy barrel varminter, but optically superb and dead nuts reliable.

It is probably a better fit for a hunting rifle and I will likely set it up for my 280Rem for the rest of the tests.

ILya

How is the glass compared to a Swaro?  Looked at the link but don't see any pics of it or the reticle.  How heavy is that reticle? 

IBS reticle is kinda growing on me.  While I am not big on holdover reticle in SFP, in this scope it works all right.  The subtensions are 1 MOA at 14x and naturally, twice that at 7x.  Thick bars are 1MOA at 14x.  The whole thing is surprisingly visible in low light.

There is a picture of it here:

but it is a bit misleading , because the thick bars are much longer in real life and the center pattern takes up much less of the FOV.

Optically, it is hard to say which is better without putting them side-by-side.  It is up there.  I think Ted has both, so he might be a better source for that.

The target turret has zero stop and 18MOA per turn.  It only allows one full turn, so you are limited to 18MOA.  Overall adjustment range is around 35MOA, I think.

For a tactical scope, 18 MOA would not be enough, but since it takes my 280Rem beyond 700 yards, it is good enough for me.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 08:34
ccoker View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/13/2008
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 2032
Good info
I havent had a chance to test one yet but I would like to
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 09:30
tpcollins View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: January/12/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 330
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I sure like my Swaro, it really does make all my other scopes look bad.  
 
I have a Swarovski  3-9x36mm on my "muzlleloader" with the 4A reticle. I drool every time I look thru it . . .
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 10:38
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14321
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


Optically, it is hard to say which is better without putting them side-by-side.  It is up there.  I think Ted has both, so he might be a better source for that.


Yes, I do have both a Swaro Z6 (1.7-10X42) and a Leica ER (2.5-10X42).  I have compared them side by side many times and I can't decide which of the two I think is "better," because both have certain features that I like better than the other.

On pure image quality, these scopes seem to be representative samples of Swaro and Leica's signature design philosophies in general for their respective optics products.  I think the Z6 has a larger sweet spot and a larger FOV (due to the expanded zoom range and lower power on the low end.  Both have about the same FOV on 10X), and the image appears to extend more completely out to the "edge of the tube" on the Z6.  That's my favorite attribute of the Z6:  it's got such a massive "picture window" view on lower power and there's no tunneling whatsoever.  In fact, you barely even see the edge of the eyepiece housing in use.  The ER doesn't suffer from tunnel vision either, but it doesn't quite make the tube "disappear" like the Z6 does.  Both are very easy to get behind, with very forgiving "eye boxes," the Z6 maybe a bit better in this regard.  The ER appears to me to have more enhanced contrast, and a bit warmer color bias.  I like the way the world looks through it a little better than the Z6 because animals contrast against the background just a tad better... again, to my eye.  Both have equally superb resolution and light transmission.  If there's any difference between them in either attribute, I can't see it.  Both have very good control over veiling flare, which is to say you'd have a hard time inducing flare in either.

Leica ER has a longer main tube due to its much shorter eyepiece housing design, while overall length remains very close to its competitors of the same or similar power range.  This is a handy feature, making it more versatile for mounting on various action lengths without having to use extended mounts. 

Z6 of course has the 6:1 zoom ratio, which theoretically gives it more versatility in a wider range of hunting environments. 

ER has Aqua-Dura outer lens coating, Leica's version of the hydrophobic coatings used by other mfgs like Zeiss and Bushnell.  Unless Swaro just recently added their "SwaroClean," Z6 doesn't have a similar coating.  I've heard rumors that maybe they are adding it, have added it, or are thinking of adding it; I don't know.  If they are/have, they've done a poor job of advertising that fact.  Since their binos and spotters feature "SwaroClean" and my Z6 doesn't, that kinda ticks me off, because they should have incorporated it in their flagship scope line from the beginning.  This isn't a big deal to some, but I've found that these coatings do work and do provide some advantage in wet weather.

Swaro has a better CS and warranty coverage reputation than Leica does, and a much longer history of producing and supporting rifle scopes.  However, I feel confident Leica will provide good support for the ER scopes should one ever need service.

You really can't go wrong in selecting either scope.  They are both worthy contenders for the best hunting scopes made, along with the likes of Zeiss Victory, S&B Zenith, etc.  Any "advantage" one offers is offset by advantages offered by the other.  Any image quality "superiority" one might offer over the other is probably trivial and subject to the individual preferences of the observer. 

They are both world class.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 11:10
@WitsEnd View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: May/25/2012
Location: ABQ, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 78
RifleDude wrote:

Yes, I do have both a Swaro Z6 (1.7-10X42) and a Leica ER (2.5-10X42).  I have compared them side by side many times and I can't decide which of the two I think is "better," because both have certain features that I like better than the other.

On pure image quality, these scopes seem to be representative samples of Swaro and Leica's signature design philosophies in general for their respective optics products.  I think the Z6 has a larger sweet spot and a larger FOV (due to the expanded zoom range and lower power on the low end.  Both have about the same FOV on 10X), and the image appears to extend more completely out to the "edge of the tube" on the Z6.  That's my favorite attribute of the Z6:  it's got such a massive "picture window" view on lower power and there's no tunneling whatsoever.  In fact, you barely even see the edge of the eyepiece housing in use.  The ER doesn't suffer from tunnel vision either, but it doesn't quite make the tube "disappear" like the Z6 does.  Both are very easy to get behind, with very forgiving "eye boxes," the Z6 maybe a bit better in this regard.  The ER appears to me to have more enhanced contrast, and a bit warmer color bias.  I like the way the world looks through it a little better than the Z6 because animals contrast against the background just a tad better... again, to my eye.  Both have equally superb resolution and light transmission.  If there's any difference between them in either attribute, I can't see it.  Both have very good control over veiling flare, which is to say you'd have a hard time inducing flare in either.

Leica ER has a longer main tube due to its much shorter eyepiece housing design, while overall length remains very close to its competitors of the same or similar power range.  This is a handy feature, making it more versatile for mounting on various action lengths without having to use extended mounts. 

Z6 of course has the 6:1 zoom ratio, which theoretically gives it more versatility in a wider range of hunting environments. 

ER has Aqua-Dura outer lens coating, Leica's version of the hydrophobic coatings used by other mfgs like Zeiss and Bushnell.  Unless Swaro just recently added their "SwaroClean," Z6 doesn't have a similar coating.  I've heard rumors that maybe they are adding it, have added it, or are thinking of adding it; I don't know.  If they are/have, they've done a poor job of advertising that fact.  Since their binos and spotters feature "SwaroClean" and my Z6 doesn't, that kinda ticks me off, because they should have incorporated it in their flagship scope line from the beginning.  This isn't a big deal to some, but I've found that these coatings do work and do provide some advantage in wet weather.

Swaro has a better CS and warranty coverage reputation than Leica does, and a much longer history of producing and supporting rifle scopes.  However, I feel confident Leica will provide good support for the ER scopes should one ever need service.

You really can't go wrong in selecting either scope.  They are both worthy contenders for the best hunting scopes made, along with the likes of Zeiss Victory, S&B Zenith, etc.  Any "advantage" one offers is offset by advantages offered by the other.  Any image quality "superiority" one might offer over the other is probably trivial and subject to the individual preferences of the observer. 

They are both world class.
Thanks Ted for the wonderful comparison!!! Excellent
 
 
That make me feel better about my purchase of my 3.5-14x42mm (plex reticle with elevation turret) ER Leica riflescope. Wink
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 12:14
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 10978
Thanks for chiming in Ted.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 12:38
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14321
You're most welcome, my friend.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 18:13
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5431
Thanks Ted!  Makes my decision SOOOOO much easier!  Now I just have to visit Texas to see them side by side.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 18:16
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14321
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Thanks Ted!  Makes my decision SOOOOO much easier!  Now I just have to visit Texas to see them side by side.


You're more than welcome to visit any time, my friend!  You could even see them side by side while we're out hunting with them!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2012 at 18:43
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5431
I will say, I have the Leica Geovids 10x42, and they blow my mind optically.  If the scope is that level, I know I will love it.  I have memories of testing the 1.7-10s and loved that scope, so either would be great.
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Swaro or other?"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Swaro Amer. - Swaro Z3 Ballistic Turret JF4545 Rifle Scopes 2
375 H&H vs. Swaro Z6i Texas Rifle Scopes 13
Is Swaro Z3 the same glass... BOLIO1 Rifle Scopes 3
Swaro EL v Xen Ray ED2 pass-thru Binoculars 8
Swaro...wrong scope for my rifle? kallen Rifle Scopes 40
Swaro Vs Kahles jackG Rifle Scopes 8
swaro av vs. z3 pass-thru Rifle Scopes 2
Swaro EL 42 HD feedback yet? windstrings Binoculars 34
Kahles Helia CL or Swaro PH Browning Rifle Scopes 35
Swaro for long range varmint TD-Max Varmint Scopes 19


This page was generated in 0.250 seconds.