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Swaro EL 42 HD feedback yet?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2010 at 15:01
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No one has the new Swaro EL 42 HD's yet?

They came out in January and I expected to see the forum lit up with discussion on them and I see nothing?

No one knows about them or is no one interested?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2010 at 17:23
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I've seen them.  They are awesome binoculars!  Very flat field, and sharp image all the way to the edge of the field.  They have some rolling ball effect when panning, but still produce world class image quality, with the largest sweet spot of any binocular I've ever seen.  There has been a little discussion about them here, but not much.  It isn't that nobody is interested; just that few can justify the price tag!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2010 at 17:32
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Maybe the word "justify" is a relative term.

Its all about your value system.... compared to what you get in a 400 - 800 pair, I agree, dollar for dollar the cheaper bino's are a better bang for the buck.
But if your trying to get the best of the best.... that always cost.
That little edge that you mainly pick up on a subliminal level that just somehow makes the view look better and the whole experience more enjoyable.. but you can't put your finger on it.

If the regular EL's go for 2K, I think another 350 - 400 bucks is modest for a next generation optic that has more than just another fancy coating on the same old lens but rather a whole new technology that "like you say" gives the flattest sweet spot of any bino.. "practically from edge to edge!", that I can think of as well as phenomenal color rendition and clarity......... thats a <20% increase in price... I really expected an even higher price... especially with the dollar dropping.

I've waited for these for almost 2 years... now that they are here... just wanted some feedback from owners.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2010 at 18:02
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Stated another way... few here are willing to spend that much money on binoculars, no matter how spectacular, especially when you can get several superb binos for <$800. 

Would I love to have the new Swaro?  Absolutely!  But, there are other things that I'd rather use $2400 for.  Besides, I've got some very good binoculars already, so I'm not exactly left wanting for better image quality when I use the ones I have.

If you do buy them, please post a review!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2010 at 18:24
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Yep... thats it in a nutshell!.... I'm also looking at a Smith and Wesson .460.... humm....

But I do tend to rather wait and get what I really want so I don't have buyers remorse later.... otherwise get some throw away cheapies to get you buy.....
it only hurts when your paying for it...

Just save up an don't go in debt to buy them or take away from real priorities... otherwise wait.

I do like the wonder of looking through fine glasses!.... it turns the world into a place you don't want to leave.....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 00:37
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I love my Swaro products but honestly..... I'm surprised some consumers are still willing to pay this much (and more) for one set of bino's when there are sooooo many other great optic choices out there for much less. 





Edited by mike650 - February/24/2010 at 09:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 10:48
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It always gets back to the law of diminishing returns for me.  I bought my first pair of premium binocs years ago, the Trinovid 10x42.  They've served me well for 11 years now, and are still great.  Probably the toughest binoc ever made in my book.  Nowadays, with products that give you 97% of the optics the alpha's give you, there's no reason for me to spend $2000 on binoculars anymore.  Glass such as the Zen ED2, Meopta (Cabela's Euro), Leupold GR HD, Bushnell Elite (open bridge model) will show you everything the new Swarovisions will, unless you're into finding mites on a sparrow's ass that is.  For big game hunting, these will show you everything the SV's, FL's, UV HD's will.  As a matter of fact, I looked through the EDG in Reno a month ago, along with the Swarovisions, and the EDG found on the samplelist is an absolute steal for the glass you get (fabulous). 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 13:01
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Stated another way... few here are willing to spend that much money on binoculars, no matter how spectacular, especially when you can get several superb binos for <$800.... 
 
Ding ding ding... I believe we have a winner.  Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:28
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Guys, optical clarity is not the only deciding factor is a binocular.  Mechanical reliability and solid construction is another huge part of the equation... Down the road, when you $800 dollar bins need service and the marketing company who sells them says "sorry, we don't have any parts for them" then the sweet taste of the  lower price will turn bitter very quickly. NV Hunter

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:37
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While this is true, these days you don't have to have either great optics OR great customer support, and both aren't necessarily mutually exclusive of build quality/ durability... you can have all of the above, for a heckuva lot less than $2400!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:55
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I suppose a lot of the arguments held here hold also for cars, guns, boats, jewelry, telescopes, computers, TV's, on and on...... buying middle of the road is always the best bang for the buck.
And what you pay through the nose for today to get cutting edge will be half that price in a few years.

lets face it... Money alone is not why we buy what we buy, and most binos are only good for pretty much center vision and all the rest is too blurry for crisp clarity and only considered "periphery" vision.... you see good enough through the periphery vision on the edges that objects in that zone can get your attention and so you then slightly move the binos to let the center give you the real honest story, wasting precious seconds in the process.

I haven't looked through a pair of the new Swaro EL 42's  yet, but like someone else said, I have owned the Swaro EL "regular" in a 42mm version and also the Meopta from Cabelas and I could see a difference between the two.

While both were exquisite at first glance, the Swaro had a flatter larger sweet spot that made it comfortable to gaze through without getting eye strain for long periods.

Anytime we see "blur" our eyes attempt to compensate by flexing the accessory muscles around the eye that control accommodation to see better. The more of that you have going on, the more of a headache and the less pleasurable the whole experience is, especially if you wear glasses.

If you can point the bino's in one direction and see from edge to edge without the need to move the binos because nothing is blurry on the edges and everything is clear, the longer you can look through them without getting a headache.

A fine sportscar gets you from point A to point B the same as a corolla, but one does it with comfort, style and more enjoyment in the process.

There also comes into play a certain "pride of ownership" too.

I don't think there is a right and a wrong.. and I hate spending three times extra at dinner for atmosphere and class when the food is no better but only "prettier".

By the same token if we could only say we were getting the "latest"... like a lot of cars where they slap a new body over the same old car and call it "new" that would be one thing, but I expect the whole experience is better due to an upgrade in hardware and technology both........ IMO, as much as I hate to admit it, the 400.00 extra bucks is well worth the quality you get.

As many have said, you get what you pay for, and while at this price range we are certainly into the margin of diminishing returns, I do think you get your money's worth if they are what all the reviews have raved.

I know there is always hype with a new product, and I for one almost bought the Nikon EDG's but honestly didn't like them for the money when I was comparing against the regular EL's.

Funny how our eyes truly don't see the same things, and our perspective is different, as well as what brings us joy.
To some the bino is simply a tool to access deeper purposes such as killing the prize game or counting the points of an antler, while to others the whole experience of the chase is funner than the kill itself.

I for one love the experience of seeing the world transformed through fine glass as I'm a details kinda person.

Anytime I'm buying something I intend to use for many years, I hate getting less than what I really want.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 14:57
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

While this is true, these days you don't have to have either great optics OR great customer support, and both aren't necessarily mutually exclusive of build quality/ durability... you can have all of the above, for a heckuva lot less than $2400!


I agree Ted, in many instances your paying a little extra for an "insurance policy" on an inferior product rather than getting a vote of confidence from the manufacturer in their own product.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 15:12
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Originally posted by NV Hunter NV Hunter wrote:

Guys, optical clarity is not the only deciding factor is a binocular.  Mechanical reliability and solid construction is another huge part of the equation... Down the road, when you $800 dollar bins need service and the marketing company who sells them says "sorry, we don't have any parts for them" then the sweet taste of the  lower price will turn bitter very quickly. NV Hunter


So you question Leupold's ability to service their product (Leupy GR HD binos)?  BTW, here's a post I made on another forum explaining my in the field use of several binos........

I'll preface this by saying I really like the EL. The first instance was when aoudad hunting. The rimrock is very steep and rocky, so my buddy put them in his pack for the climb down. He did some slipping and sliding on the way down. When we got to the fallen sheep he went to his pack to get his knives out. Next time he pulled out his EL's the barrels were knocked slightly out of alignment (there may be a more technical term for this). The second time happened just this past year mule deer hunting. We were on a high rack in the back of the truck with our spotting scopes (about 8 feet off the ground). He went to take his binos off and he dropped them. Obviously sand and moving parts don't mix real well. The focus mechanism got some sand in it, and when he tried to focus it the whole mechanism broke. I can't tell you how many times my Trinovids, Elite's, and this year the Zen Ed2 has been literally dragged through the sand when stalking a big mule deer buck, and they all survived perfectly. In fact, I later took the Zen's and sloshed them around in a water trough for a minute or two with no problems. Swaro fixed the EL's in both cases with no questions asked, promptly. My hat's off to them for that.


There are no guarantees.......Leica has been bankrupt once and there's nothing to say they won't be again.  The Leupy GR 10x42 HD is built extremely well, heavy like a trinovid, and has great glass.......about 98% of any EL I've seen.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 18:45
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Originally posted by NV Hunter NV Hunter wrote:

Guys, optical clarity is not the only deciding factor is a binocular.  Mechanical reliability and solid construction is another huge part of the equation... Down the road, when you $800 dollar bins need service and the marketing company who sells them says "sorry, we don't have any parts for them" then the sweet taste of the  lower price will turn bitter very quickly. NV Hunter

That was the pure, absolute truth 20 years ago, maybe even 10.  That quality control difference is being halved about every five years or so.  The newer stuff keeps getting better by leaps and bounds at the same sub $500 price levels, while the alpha is now $2,100++.  We do need to see what some of the newer entries in the market will do in survivability, no argument.  However, $800 binoculars like the Gold Ring and Meostar are every bit as tough as any alpha going and come from long lived companies with solid reputations.  As far as I can see, if anything, today's alpha is not as sturdy as yesterday's alpha.  For example look at the Leica Trinovid and convince yourself the new Ultravid is the same sort of tank build.  Same thing with the older Zeiss Classics compared to the new FL.


Edited by Klamath - February/24/2010 at 18:46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2010 at 19:33
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Originally posted by NV Hunter NV Hunter wrote:

Guys, optical clarity is not the only deciding factor is a binocular.  Mechanical reliability and solid construction is another huge part of the equation... Down the road, when you $800 dollar bins need service and the marketing company who sells them says "sorry, we don't have any parts for them" then the sweet taste of the  lower price will turn bitter very quickly. NV Hunter

As of late, I've noticed on this forum and most other optics forums, the 'reliability/durability'  reasoning seems to be the most recent last ditch effort by folks attempting to justify $2000 + optics. 
 
 As pointed out by Steve above, some of the mid priced binos are built as good if not better than some of the latest Alpha offerings.
I doubt Meopta or Leupold is going anywhere anytime soon, and with Leupolds entry level and mid-priced bino and scope market to keep them afloat during the recent economic dip, they might actually outlive some of the Alpha makers long term.
 
When your take a long hard look at it, there are a ton of relative newcomer brands glasses on the market and durability just doesn't seem to be a common issue.
For example, a brand like Vortex has been around a few years now and how many complaints do you see of quality control? I sure haven't come across many. In any case, their lifetime no-questions-asked replacement warranty seems to remove worries of duribility.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2010 at 15:56
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I suspect that the likes of Zen Ray and Vortex have cut into profits of the alpha's quite a bit.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2010 at 16:40
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You're right TexasPhotog.  If you've noticed a whole bunch of good stuff, i.e SLC's, Minox, Leup GR, Pentax ED have had "sales" to move slow moving stuff.  As I mentioned before, the Nikon EDG, for $1300 off the samplelist is a major steal, as this glass is as good as it gets, period.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2010 at 12:11
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

the Nikon EDG, for $1300 off the samplelist is a major steal, as this glass is as good as it gets, period.  


HUMM..... I disagree... to say as good as it gets it pretty strong.

First of all, to appreciate the subtile differences in these glasses, you cannot free hand them.. they need to be mounted and fixed still because your eyes will play tricks if things are moving.

I spent about an hour comparing the EDG against the last generation Swaro EL's and I honestly feel the EL's were sharper.. especially on the edges.

Now that the new EL42's are out, I cannot hear one negative thing about them from anybody that's looked through them?... Even the experts....

Even putting them on sophisticated benchmarking equipment they excel with flying colors off the chart of what could ever be expected as "perfection" in all areas... even to the edges.
They may have to redefine the benchmarks to start finding errors!
And that would truly be beyond human perception with the natural eye.

I Haven't had the pleasure to try any myself, but I think many could be downplaying the new Swaro's for fear they could steal the market as its a tight market right now with money so lean.

I would love to see some tests between the two and some real hands on trials by real people with both in the field.

If EDG has dropped the price so much, its not because they are full of love and want to bless everybody.. its because they have to, in order to compete with the best of the best.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2010 at 12:27
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The new Swaros are indeed great binoculars, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they define perfection.  I actually prefer a binocular to have a bit of pincushion distortion designed in (as most do).  The field flattener lens element that Swaro added to this binocular causes a bit of a "rolling ball" effect when panning.  It is a minor thing, but something that annoys me a bit nevertheless.  This is why some pincushion is intentionally incorporated into most binocular optical designs, to alleviate the "rolling ball" effect.  When you are just stationary viewing, the view through the Swarovisions are breathtaking, sharp to the edge, but is the view optically perfect?  I don't know.  What I do know is (with current technology at least), there's no such thing as perfection in an optic.  EVERY design decision to optimize one thing comes at the expense of something else.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2010 at 12:39
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I haven't tried them yet to see what your talking about.... but I can only imagine.

I have fine quality Zeiss lenses in my Camera's and if you have a good quality wide angle lens, it looks perfect while stationary, even indoors in a room, but then when you move it... parts of the screen move faster than other parts possibly giving you the effect your talking about.
The closer the objects viewed, the more intense that effect is.

True that would be a preference issue as whether you use them to watch the horse races or birds or hunting may affect a persons decision as to which they prefer.

I don't tend to use them for action scenes but rather stationary, so I'm not sure the rolling effect would be an issue for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2010 at 09:08
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I appreciate your point of view, and there's no denying the optical excellence or the Swarovisions.  I can come up with a big negative immediately........$2400!  Another negative is that they're built on the EL platform, in which my hunting group has proven less than rugged over the past two years by trashing two pairs.  That's a big negative to me.  I'm a hunter, not a birdwatcher.  I'm not looking for mites on a kingfisher's ass.  For serious use there's much tougher premium glass than the EL.  

You need to go back a re-read my comment that you quoted.  I said samplelist, meaning factory demo/refurbished, meaning they're discounted by not being 100% new.  That's why the price is lower than the $1900 new asking price.  It's not that complicated.

One final note, I didn't notice you being there when I compared the two at Reno......they were on a tripod.  Optical perfection, which is more than pure optics, doesn't exist yet IMO. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2010 at 22:04
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I"ve noticed high dollar binos are definitely easy to find in the Bargain bin.... people get buyers remorse after spending so much.

Of maybe once their wives find out how much they spent!  Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2010 at 10:04
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Quality "Alpha" optics always hold their value better than the mid range brands...  It has always been that way with products of higher quality or value. i.e. diamonds, gold, guns, high quality wristwatches and optics...     NV Hunter 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2010 at 21:15
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Spend $2400 on a Swarovision, sell it at 90% retail.  Loose $240.  Buy a ZEN ED at $400, sell it for 50% retail, loose $200.  Plus you still have the original difference of $2,000 in your pocket (or wherever else that might do some good).  Or buy the $400 in the first place and you might not have to sell it to get at the extra $2,000 you shouldn't have spent originally.  Different story I suppose if you have the means to actually afford that kind of money on a binocular. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2010 at 22:39
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Its a bit like Ribeye.... yea its expensive... but once you get used to it.. your ruin't and nothing else is good because you keep comparing it to the ribeye!

I just wait till its on sale.... unfortunately thats a long wait with high end binos.
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