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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2010 at 13:43
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As far as glass quality (clarity, resolution, etc) where does the SS fall in?  Is it as good as a 4200? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2010 at 17:10
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Which SS are you asking about?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2010 at 20:08
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I was talking in general.  In particular I will probably be interested in the 6x42.  Do all the SS not have the same glass?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2010 at 07:33
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SS will hold up better, be clearer, crisper, all out above the 4200 in my opinion, and I am a diehard Bushy fan.  For what your paying for a SS you would be hard pressed to get the same in a scope costing two - three times as much.  Chris didn't mess around when he started the SS line and providing the consumer a product for way less than its worth. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2010 at 18:15
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anyone else have an opinion?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2010 at 19:22
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The original design SS scopes (10x42, 16x42 and 20x42) have glass that is slightly worse than Elite 4200.

The newly designed SS scopes (3-9x42 and 10x42HD) have glass that is a little better than Elite 4200.

As far as mechanical quality and reliability go, SS scopes are as good as it gets.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2010 at 19:27
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Thanks for the input.  Does any one know how the mildot reticle does in low light. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2010 at 19:31
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The SS line of scopes even the ones made 4-5 years ago have superior glass to any Bushnell product. The big difference however is not just the glass. The SS line of scopes can be dropped down a cliff, ran over by a truck and fall into a river and be let for an hour and still work 100%. I have done all 3 of these things(1 on purpose) they will not take on water, not fog up and they will return to zero and maintain proper windage and elevation adjustments after severe abuse.
 
If you buy an SS and don't like it you can sell in for $50 less than you paid for it in 1 day...try that with a Bushnell product.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 11:34
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I have the SS 10x42mm Side Focus model.  I have found the low light resolution to be fair. 
It would have been nice if the SS 3-9x42mm FFP had an illuminated reticle, but somethings have to be scarificed to keep the cost down.
Listen to Koshkin.  He is an optics expert.  This guy really knows optics.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 11:57
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Originally posted by Derek Myers Derek Myers wrote:

The SS line of scopes even the ones made 4-5 years ago have superior glass to any Bushnell product.


Having both SS scopes the 10x original and the 10x HD and a couple bushnell 4200s, I would agree with Koshkin.  The old is a little worse than the 4200 and the new is better than the 4200. 

And Derek I just read your post on Snipers Hide (which was quite a story by the way, thanks for sharing that) and would say after owning both SS scopes that the new one is worth the $800 price tag.  It really is a dandy scope.  The glass quality to my eyes is right up there with my IOR scopes.  Much better than any Leupold MK4s I have compared it too.  And the adjustments are spot on.  Sure it might not be as fancy as a modified US optics, but it does not cost near as much either.  Its a best buy in its price range no doubt about it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 17:48
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OK.  I really should not open this can of beans, but what the hell.    I read Koshkin's post and he stated both of the new SWFA SS scopes are "Kick Ass".  I think the 3-9x42mm FFP is very competitive at $600.  I have seen them on SWFA/ebay with a $160 of free accessories.
But I am confused.  I address Mr Koshkin to provide an answer.  The first time I read about the SS10x42HD it was in a post from SWFA.  It was suppose to compare to a scope that retails for $1600.  They are other Optics Forums that have discussed this scope.  It was established early on that this is a Bushnell design.  The SS10x42HD now has HD stand for High Definition.  One can see that it is the tube and turrents from the Variable SS.  So what does the extra $200 buy?  No lighted reticle, no GEN II Mildot, No parallax knob and only 20 mils of adjustment..  It has the same basic optics as the Variable SS.  Does not sound so "Kick Ass" to me.  Some people thought this scope would compare to Bushnell's Elite 6500 series.  Not so.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 17:54
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It has 30 mils of adjustment, it does has a parallax adjustment, it has slightly better glass than the variable.  It is a heavier duty built scope than the variable, which means tougher internals.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 18:28
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I thought that the glass on the Bushnell Elite 4200 and 6500 are the same. And that HD stood for heavy duty not high definition.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 19:40
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correct on the first, wrong on the second, hd does stand for high definition
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 20:01
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Yeah I would have thought the HD was for Heave Duty also.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 20:28
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We were both 1/2 correct. According to CF HD has a dual meaning on this scope (Heavy Duty and High Definition).

See CF's comments

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=17793
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 20:47
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i think the high def glass is probably more important to note on this scope than the "heavy duty" moniker. the hd glass is quite an improvement, everybody knows that super snipers are tough.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 20:50
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Originally posted by Astro8 Astro8 wrote:

OK.  I really should not open this can of beans, but what the hell.    I read Koshkin's post and he stated both of the new SWFA SS scopes are "Kick Ass".  I think the 3-9x42mm FFP is very competitive at $600.  I have seen them on SWFA/ebay with a $160 of free accessories.
But I am confused.  I address Mr Koshkin to provide an answer.  The first time I read about the SS10x42HD it was in a post from SWFA.  It was suppose to compare to a scope that retails for $1600.  They are other Optics Forums that have discussed this scope.  It was established early on that this is a Bushnell design.  The SS10x42HD now has HD stand for High Definition.  One can see that it is the tube and turrents from the Variable SS.  So what does the extra $200 buy?  No lighted reticle, no GEN II Mildot, No parallax knob and only 20 mils of adjustment..  It has the same basic optics as the Variable SS.  Does not sound so "Kick Ass" to me.  Some people thought this scope would compare to Bushnell's Elite 6500 series.  Not so.   

Have you seen the 10x42HD?

Which exact Bushnell design is it?

What other forums are you referring to? and what insight do those forums have into the design and origination of 10x42HD scope? (forgive my sarcasm, but I think those "other optics forums" you are referring to were pretty low on reliable information which was freely substituted with fertile imagination)

I am not sure what HD stands for.  I think originally it was supposed to stand for "Heavy Duty".  However, the glass is also very nicely upgraded on this one, and the glass is, I think, better than on the 3-9x42 S.S.  How much better is a tough call, since the magnifications are not exactly the same.

The knobs are of the same general design as on the 3-9x42 S.S.; however, they are different (a bit beefier).

It seems a bit overbuilt in some other areas as well (the tube looks thicker, for example).

How exactly is it the same as the variable S.S. when the eyepieces are of different length. Tube length is a bit different and, on top of everything else, the 3-9x42 S.S. is slightly lighter than the 10x42HD, when variable scopes typically require more complicated internal construction? 

As far as the parallax adjustment goes, it is in the rear of the scope where the magnification ring would have been otherwise.  Whether that is convenient to you or not is a matter of personal choice.  Personally, I like it, plus it is a bit more lefty-friendly than side-focus, so when I practice shooting off of the weak side, it is more convenient.

10x42HD's main competitor is the much more expensive Leupold Mark 4 10x40.  I will take the 10x42HD over the 10x40 Mark 4 any day of the week, and twice on weekends.

Eye relief is longer and more flexible (on the flip side, S.S. does have slightly narrower field of view).
Tracking is spot on and more repeatable (I've had problems with the Mark 4).
Parallx adjustment does not exhibit any hysteresis (unlike Mark 4).
0.1mrad clicks vs MOA-based clicks on the Mark 4.
Glass is better than Mark 4 (noticeably so).
Price is 40% lower than Mark 4.
Adjustment range is around 30mrads, I think, which is quite a bit more than Mark 4.

As far as the reticle selection goes, these scopes were built for a military contract, with a limited number going for retail sales.  I suspect the reticle was chosen by the military.

Gen 2 MilDot is a patented design owned by Premier Reticles, so SWFA could, obviously, not use it.  Personally, I prefer reticles with hashmarks to dots, but I am quite use to MilDot reticle, so I do not mind it.

What other 10x scopes do you know of that offer more for the money than the 10x42HD (or the original 10x42 S.S. for that matter)?

IOR used to offer a pretty decent 10x42 with steel tube, but I have not seen it for a while.  They currently have a 10x56, but that is a pretty different configuration, besides IOR historically had some problems with their 56mm scopes.  If it proves durable, I might pick one up for lower light.

S&B makes a very nice PMII 10x42.  For $1800.

What else is out there that competes with 10x42HD?

There are a few of cheaper scopes that try to compete with the original 10x42 S.S. (typically not very well): Millet 10x50, Weaver GS 10x40 and Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40.

Generally speaking, you will see that most contemporary LOW-built scopes have outwardly similar knob designs.  However, that does not mean that these are all the same knobs.  They vary considerably in terms of size and internal construction details.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2010 at 21:03
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Originally posted by Astro8 Astro8 wrote:

OK.  I really should not open this can of beans, but what the hell.    I read Koshkin's post and he stated both of the new SWFA SS scopes are "Kick Ass".  I think the 3-9x42mm FFP is very competitive at $600.  I have seen them on SWFA/ebay with a $160 of free accessories.
But I am confused.  I address Mr Koshkin to provide an answer.  The first time I read about the SS10x42HD it was in a post from SWFA.  It was suppose to compare to a scope that retails for $1600.  They are other Optics Forums that have discussed this scope.  It was established early on that this is a Bushnell design.  The SS10x42HD now has HD stand for High Definition.  One can see that it is the tube and turrents from the Variable SS.  So what does the extra $200 buy?  No lighted reticle, no GEN II Mildot, No parallax knob and only 20 mils of adjustment..  It has the same basic optics as the Variable SS.  Does not sound so "Kick Ass" to me.  Some people thought this scope would compare to Bushnell's Elite 6500 series.  Not so.   

Just FYI.  I have the SS10xHD on an Anzio Ironworks .50BMG.  Mine has 384 clicks in both az and el, which works out to 38.4 mils or 132MOA.  The glass is superior to Bushnell 4200.  I can hunt with it in conditions well beyond the legal hunting hours.  If there is any background light at all, stars, moon, city reflections, I can hunt at night.  It doesn't need an IR.  There is only one scope I have ever used that is tougher and that scope cannot be purchased on the market.  The 6500 is a good scope, but it does not match the SS10xHD for overall performance.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2010 at 07:57
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+20
 
I have run one on a Anzio 20MM and there is no reason to hestiate.
 
The basics are all this scope needs to perform all the other bells and whistles are not necessary for 99% of engagements. 
 
Side by side the 10HD everytime.
 
Koshkin is not a God but he does offer unrivaled reviews and speaks honestly, If SWFA labeled something that was a pile of crap or junk he would call them out on it...He might even dare to be beguile them do to the quality they are specifying if they tried to pull one on us...
While the scope on the rifle is not a SS and the neither rifle is mine.  I am showing the comparison between the two so you know that abuse is a little more significant on the 20MM...Yes the one besides it is the .50BMG...If you have the money for the $200 tax stamp it is worth it...
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2010 at 08:26
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I have not had the chance to try out the SS10XHD.  I have read that it is based on a strengthen version of the SS3-9X42 model. 
I admit the other forums do not have the the insight on the design and manufacture of the SS10X42HD. 
Leupold Mark 4 scopes are overpriced by 25% to 33%.  Mark 4 accessories by as much as 50%.
The GEN II Reticle can be used if you purchase a license from Premier Reticles.
There is little to compete with SS10X42HD.  Your list of lower priced competitors
are not worthy to compete with the SS10X42HD.
As for the original SWFA/Tasco SS10x42mm, the UK Falcon Optics Menace 10x is a worthy competitor.  If you can find one.
Thank you for responding.  Your information is enlighting and informative.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2010 at 08:45
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Karl Kaps is a Asslar Weltzar-Hensoldt Offshoot they are in no way comparative...
 
I will watch what I say but I do not even believe they have anyone who sells the KAPS name in the USA or Canada...(I actually hope I am wrong...!!!) they are superb performers, I was lucky to get one on a trade of a Sauer 202...
 
The price points I would have to believe are 3 to 4 times as much...($1800-2400)


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - January/09/2010 at 08:47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2010 at 11:37
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Originally posted by Astro8 Astro8 wrote:

I have not had the chance to try out the SS10XHD.  I have read that it is based on a strengthen version of the SS3-9X42 model. 
I admit the other forums do not have the the insight on the design and manufacture of the SS10X42HD. 
Leupold Mark 4 scopes are overpriced by 25% to 33%.  Mark 4 accessories by as much as 50%.
The GEN II Reticle can be used if you purchase a license from Premier Reticles.
There is little to compete with SS10X42HD.  Your list of lower priced competitors
are not worthy to compete with the SS10X42HD.
As for the original SWFA/Tasco SS10x42mm, the UK Falcon Optics Menace 10x is a worthy competitor.  If you can find one.
Thank you for responding.  Your information is enlighting and informative.
 

Kaps makes nice scopes, but they are not easy to get in the US.  Val (of IOR Valdada) was trying to import them a while back and even had a couple of Kaps scopes at last year's SHOT, so I had a chance to look at them briefly.

I think opticsHQ or some other outfit used to import them a while back, but it did not last too long.

The Kaps scopes I inspected a year ago prompted this note (from my overview of SHOT 2009):
Apparently, Valdada now imports a few Kaps scopes.  They had 10x56 and 2.5-10x50 on display.  There is also a 8x56 model, but it was not on display.  Interesting designs: very nice looking glass, very slim but well executed eyepieces.  Knobs, I was not impressed with: a bit too much slop.  2.5-10x50 scope has a BDC for 168gr 308.  I am kinda mixed on these scopes: beautiful craftsmanship and the glass appears very good, but the knobs are a bit disappointing.  We’ll see how they fare.

The knobs had a little slop in them, which was not befitting of the price range, and was impressive in design were, IMO, over engineered with too many little pieces in the mechanism.  I recall Val said he was trying to talk them into changing the knobs a little, but I have not heard anything since.

ILya
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