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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2007 at 21:19
Dandan View Drop Down
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second try at posting this.  I'm trying to decide between buying a Super Sniper 20x, or a Shightron SII 24x.  A couple of times on different forums I've read that the reticule size, or thickness of the crosshairs is large enough on the 20x SS scope to be a hinderance to precision aiming.
Does anyone know just how much of the target that the crosshair covers at 100 yards?  I haven't been able to locate that information on the SWFA site.
Thank you for any help. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2007 at 04:00
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Welcome to The OT!!

 

How far are you planning to shoot?

 

http://supersniper.com/SuperSniperReviews.htm

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2007 at 07:13
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Hi: 100-300 yards.  This is for a dedicated bench gun, I won't be hunting with it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2007 at 10:02
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dandan Dandan wrote:

Hi: 100-300 yards.  This is for a dedicated bench gun, I won't be hunting with it.

 

This is my opinion only, but I think for those ranges the 10x or 16x would serve you better than the 20x.

But, you know what your after more than me.

 

The reticle is fine for your shooting needs and is the same size on the 20x as it is on the other two models.

Or did I misunderstand your question??

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2007 at 21:20
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Thank you for responding to my question.
First let me say that I've been lurking on this forum for some time now and have found your comments to be both thoughtful and constructive, as well as the advice of several others here.  I will try to illustrate my question a little better.
I'm shooting a  mid 90's Savage mod 11 that I had re-barreled with a 26" heavy barrel in 223 Rem, Rifle Basix trigger, Weaver V9 3x9 in Weaver Top Mount rings on Weaver aluminum bases.  I'm trying to turn it into a budget benchrest rifle.  I can shoot 1" - 100yrd - 5 shot groups almost all the time with it using loads that I'm still working up, so it's not like it's awful.  I still haven't bedded the "hardwood" stock and the trigger isn't adjusted quite where I want it.  Why I think a new scope is needed next is that at 100 yd with the Weaver turned to 9x the 1" bullseye or target box is really small, really hard to center on, the scope is dark and the eye relief is maddening.  I think I need more magnification, better glass, or both.
The research I've done hints that most serious 100 yd  and many 300 yd competitors use 24x at the lowest and often 35x or 45x.  The league I joined has a 24x maximum in competition to remain in the "varmint" class.  Never having shot with more than 9x, it seemed logical to try for 20-24x.
I will bed the stock, and then replace it after I botch the job.  I can't get new rings and bases until I've settled on a scope.
I appreciate any ideas. 

Edited by Dandan
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2007 at 03:22
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Thank you for nice things you said about me and the forum.

The diversity of this group is amazing!!

 

I'm not a competition shooter, never have been, so take that into consideration.

 

I should have asked this before, but do you have a budget for your scope??

A drop dead, "I'll spend this amount and NO more!!" budget number?? 

 

Does the scope HAVE to be fixed?? What about a variable??  

 

"The research I've done hints that most serious 100 yd  and many 300 yd competitors use 24x at the lowest and often 35x or 45x." 

Really??  Boy, that seems like a lot of magnification for only 100-300 yards.

 

I have a 6.5-20 Nikon Monarch that I shoot with a lot, and I rarely ever use anything over 16x @ 100 yds. Most of the time 12x.

When I frequent a range where I can shoot out to 300 yards, I use mostly 17x or LESS because mirage can be wicked at higher magnifications. 

 

You'll hear "Less is more" preached here by myself and others.

Less power= better FOV, less mirage, typically better eye relief, etc.

 

 

Here's something to think about.

Mike McDonald shot these (2) 5 shot groups with a Savage rifle, on his belly using a 10x SS @ 100 yards. 

 

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5609&PN=2

 

Is it the Singer, or the Song??? 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2007 at 02:06
Dandan View Drop Down
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I apologize for the delay in my response, I had to go out of town.
As to my budget, yeah it was about enough for a Bushnell Banner and now it's up to a little over $300.  If it was enough for a Burris Black Diamond or (god forbid) a NightForce than we wouldn't even be having this discussion.  So to your next point, the fixed/variable debate.  It's been said repeatedly by many that a fixed power scope gives more bang for your buck and I'm easily persuaded that simple is better.  I have owned only one variable power scope and that's my Weaver V9 ($125), so I just can't say with any authority which idea is better.
So now about magnification.  Scope makers offer target scopes ranging up to 45X, and people buy them, so obviously mirage isn't a problem for some people at some distances.  From what I've read, it seems that serious 100 yard shooters like really high power and (as counter-intuitive as it sounds) longer range shooters like 10x or so to avoid mirage.  This is all internet and book reading so I don't know.
Less is more: I agree.  I should post some of my targets here that were done with my cheap Weaver.
I do appreciate your thoughts.
Thank You.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2007 at 07:05
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dandan Dandan wrote:

I apologize for the delay in my response, I had to go out of town.
As to my budget, yeah it was about enough for a Bushnell Banner and now it's up to a little over $300.

  So to your next point, the fixed/variable debate.  It's been said repeatedly by many that a fixed power scope gives more bang for your buck and I'm easily persuaded that simple is better.  I have owned only one variable power scope and that's my Weaver V9 ($125), so I just can't say with any authority which idea is better.
So now about magnification.  Scope makers offer target scopes ranging up to 45X, and people buy them, so obviously mirage isn't a problem for some people at some distances.  From what I've read, it seems that serious 100 yard shooters like really high power and (as counter-intuitive as it sounds) longer range shooters like 10x or so to avoid mirage.  This is all internet and book reading so I don't know.
Less is more: I agree.  I should post some of my targets here that were done with my cheap Weaver.
I do appreciate your thoughts.
Thank You.

 

So your right around $300 or so??

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-1921-218-nikon-65-20x44-monarch-ucc-r iflescope.aspx

(Best glass of the 2.)

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-1896-220-nikon-6-18x40-buckmaster-rif lescope.aspx

 

Yes, scope makers still make 45x fixed scopes. But with all the options out there today, why "handcuff" yourself to a optic like that??

 

I agree with your comments about the simplicity of fixed powers, but variables have come a LOOOONG way in the last several years and provide the shooter with more options.

 

Post your targets when you get a chance or send me your pics via email and I will post them here for you.

 

 



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/22/2007 at 23:20
Dandan View Drop Down
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Hi again:
<So your right around $300 or so??>

Well I was until a minor tool disaster this weekend, now I'm down to $180 in the scope fund for another month.  Every time I get enough money for a new scope something else breaks.
The Nikon 6.5x20 old model Monarch looks interesting.  Is it available or is it a  backorder thing that never quite happens?  Lots of people on the internet swear by there Monarch's.  I wish I could look through one cranked up to 20x side by side with a  S2 24X Sightron and an 20X SS and judge the images for myself.
You wrote earlier that you seldom shot at higher power than 12x or 16x with your Monarch at 100yd,  why is that?  The reason I ask is that having never shot above 9x I feel like I should go for something that lets me see everything that I can see that shows what  I'm doing to induce movement and inaccuracy to my shot, like breathing, heartbeat, etc.
Anyway, you asked to see some targets.  Here's a link:

http://www.dbwood.info/targets.html

Thank you.



Edited by Dandan
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/24/2007 at 14:13
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Sorry for the delay in my response.

 

Again, is it the singer, not the song??

Would a high powered scope help Mike's magnificent group I showed you?? I think not. Hard to beat that group, I don't care who you are... 

 

Theres a price to pay for using high magnification scopes.

Mirage, narrow FOV, reduced eye relief, but mostly, some people use a higher magnification scope to TRY to compensate for their lack of marksmanship.

 

 

My preference is to use a lower magnification scope @ 100-300 yards because I like a broader FOV, better eye relief, etc., but mostly a lower power scope helps ME to concentrate on my marksmanship skills MORE.

 

A high powered scope probably won't help your groups either. 

 

Here's a 10 shot, 100 yard group shot off a Harris bipod with a 10x SS @ 100 yards with a

Remington .308 factory rifle.

(Not as good as Mikes,  But, it's not too bad.)

 

 



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2007 at 18:53
hepcatz View Drop Down
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Cheaptrick,

WHich remi is this from...I've been looking at the 700 pss 308 myself...

 

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Sorry for the delay in my response.

 

Again, is it the singer, not the song??

Would a high powered scope help Mike's magnificent group I showed you?? I think not. Hard to beat that group, I don't care who you are... 

 

Theres a price to pay for using high magnification scopes.

Mirage, narrow FOV, reduced eye relief, but mostly, some people use a higher magnification scope to TRY to compensate for their lack of marksmanship.

 

 

My preference is to use a lower magnification scope @ 100-300 yards because I like a broader FOV, better eye relief, etc., but mostly a lower power scope helps ME to concentrate on my marksmanship skills MORE.

 

A high powered scope probably won't help your groups either. 

 

Here's a 10 shot, 100 yard group shot off a Harris bipod with a 10x SS @ 100 yards with a

Remington .308 factory rifle.

(Not as good as Mikes,  But, it's not too bad.)

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2007 at 19:06
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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The rifle is a Varmint Synthetic left handed. I don't think they are still in production anymore.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2007 at 10:27
Duce View Drop Down
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Here is the only 20x scope in the economy range at the present I don`t know how good it is by SWFA has a deal to sell them on close out

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-9243-252-simmons-65-20x50-whitetail-c lassic-rifle-scope.aspx

 

If you can I would go the difference for the super sniper

 

Duce 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2007 at 10:53
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Muller makes some scopes in the $200 + range I have no idea how good they are, the simmons is $99.99

Hope this helps you find what you are looking for in a scope.

 

http://www.swfa.com/c-1339-mueller-riflescopes.aspx

 

Duce

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2007 at 17:49
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If you are only shooting at competitions you can really help mirage by building a tube that comes from the end of your scope all the way to the end of your barrel, I read this in a bench shooter's book and it keeps the heat from the barrel from miraging you out.
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