New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Super Sniper Problem?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Super Sniper Problem?

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2007 at 21:21
unclepauly03 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/03/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7
  Hello all! First off, I am shooting a RRA AR15 A4, Wilson 20" 1:8 Fluted Stainless Match Barrel and Daniel Defense Rifle Length Rail, Harris S series bipod in Larue QD Mount, with a Super Sniper 10x42 in Warne QD Ultra High Rings. I have been using Black Hills 52gr and 68gr Match HP Ammo. I bought the scope and rings last January and just recently added it to this newly purchased custom upper.

   Now my problem, I cannot get consistent groups or a good 100yd zero. I fire a few rounds at a time to get zeroed, but just when I think the scope is on the next shots will be 1 or 2" low. I adjust the scope up and the shots hit the same or sometimes even lower. It usually is correct for windage, only the elevation seems to be erratic. I am shooting from a sturdy bench and my groups are consistently inconsistent . I have tried shooting with and without the bipod, checked all the mount and ring screws and I can't figure it out. I think I have narrowed it down to either the scope or the rings. I know you're thinking shooter error, but I think it is something more than that. I really like this Super Sniper, aside from the problems I've had. It is the perfect scope for what I want it to do. Does anyone have any idea what could be the problem?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2007 at 21:27
Wvladimire View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: June/25/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 72
First off I believe your rings may be too high. But first try a different scope on the rifle with the same
rings, to see if the problem still persists. If it does, then it's your rings and or mount. If it's a custom
upper, I am presuming the mount or rail is built into the upper receiver? If so then I would suggest
going to TPS rings. Their low rings will accomodate objectives up to 50mm so you should be fine with
the low.

Thanks and hope this helps, keepus posted.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/03/2007 at 23:15
unclepauly03 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/03/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7
   Thanks, that's a good point, switching out the scope and rings. Yes, the upper is a RRA A4, the flat-top receiver model. The rail is integral to the receiver. Here's a pic if it'll help.



  Sorry, pic is a little small


Edited by unclepauly03
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2007 at 09:12
Wvladimire View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: June/25/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Looks great I have a National Match Ar on layaway, they are a FINE piece of equipment.

So try a different scope on it first. If it holds the zero and clocks well, then your SS needs to be repaired.
No problem, cuz SWFA will take care of you on that. They always have with me.

If you experience the same problem, then you know it's the rings, and should go with TPS.

Thanks,
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2007 at 13:09
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7694

I'd throw out a very different solution (maybe more effective, maybe less; definitely less effort): buy a cheap BSA bore sighter.  Check the zero in the bore sighter, fire a few rounds, check the zero again; when rounds fall a few inches, check the bore sighter again.  If the problem is a scope problem, the bore sighter will tell you.  If the problem is rifle, ammo, "yips", or other, the bore sighter will still be dead on.

 

The bore sighter will cost you $20 almost anywhere.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2007 at 13:55
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 734
Don't know what your experience level is, just that shooting an AR off a bench is  difficult for most,  espessially when complicated with a bipod.

If you are a novice then I gotta admit, I'm looking at shooter incuded vertical.  The reasoning behind that is scopes don't fail in just one direction.  With a bad mount or optical failure you should have patterns, and you're describing vertical stringing.  That's symptomatic of catching the recoil with the web of  the trigger hand, or non-repeatable head position.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2007 at 14:10
Wvladimire View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: June/25/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 72
We are getting into another problem here gentlemen, let's eliminate the scope and rings first. Then we
can get into barrel and other possible problems.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2007 at 17:01
unclepauly03 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/03/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7
   Thanks for all the replies guys. It may be awhile 'till I can test the rings with another scope, this is the only 30mm scope or rings that I have. So, I think Rancid's idea of the BSA boresighter will be one of my next steps. I also have a AR flat top carbine that I may put this setup on and see if it does any better. I may also take the Leupold off my .308 and try it on this rifle.

   I hope it isn't just shooter error, but I don't rule it out. I was a DM in FAST Co. in the Marines. We shot an accurized M14 with Leupold 6x and 10x scopes off Harris Bipods, so I have experience shooting semi-autos with optics. Not that I'm a sniper or benchrest shooter, but I'm not really a novice either. I tried to rule out shooter error by having a buddy (who was also an Expert Rifleman in the Marines) shoot it and he had the same problem. That doesn't necessarily rule out shooter error, of course, and I'm still open to that possibility.

   I used to have this scope and rings on a standard RRA A4 without the free float rail. I had the same problems then. Before that, I used a Leupold Rifleman in Leupold Rifleman rings, and I was getting consistent 1" or less groups. I switched to the Super Sniper for a more tactical type scope and that's when the problems started. One concern for me is the Warne QD rings. They are solid, but when I mount the scope and before I tighten the QD tabs, there is some back and forth movement on the rail. Once I tighten those QD tabs, there is absolutely no discernible movement. They should only have to be finger tight right? Or should I use a plastic mallet and tighten them down just a tad more?

  Thanks again for all the help!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2007 at 15:26
sandsock View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 172
I've encountered this  fwd/back problem and my solution has been to  pull the  scope/rings to the rear before tightening...don't know if this is right or wrong but my logic is that recoil is going  to push the scope that direction anyway, might as well bottom it out from the the get-go.   As DM, you might want to  try the old shooting prone with the either the bipod or better yet a stuffed ruck....most of the time I'm the only person at the gun club shooting prone but it eliminates a lot of potential issues as Mike points out.  I'm also a fan of TPS rings and they are great in the way they support deploying military, www.tacticalprecision.com
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2007 at 00:37
unclepauly03 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/03/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7
   "I've encountered this  fwd/back problem and my solution has been to  pull the  scope/rings to the rear before tightening...don't know if this is right or wrong but my logic is that recoil is going  to push the scope that direction anyway, might as well bottom it out from the the get-go." - Sandsock

   Good point! In fact I had been doing the opposite and pushing it forward. I'll move it back and try that. It's now going to be a couple weeks 'till I can shoot again, next week is the wife's b-day. Incidentally, I went to buy the BSA boresighter like Rancid said, and found it at Gander Mountain. They wanted over $50 for it!!! I'll stick with SWFA for $25.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2007 at 09:57
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 734
Recoil is going to drive the rifle under the scope, moving the ring cross bolts forward in the mounting rail slots.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2007 at 19:24
unclepauly03 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/03/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7
   Thanks Mike, right on! I found the instructions to my Warne rings last night and that is exactly what they said - to place the rings in the mount and then move them forward before tightening down. So, I moved the scope forward in the rail and then tightened them down really good and re-torqued all the ring screws to 25 in/lbs. The rings should be good to go now.

    I went shooting today to check everything. This time I used Black Hills 52gr MHP that I have more of and that I want to use mostly for target shooting anyway. I took the bipod off and got a good position with sand bags at the range. Everything worked fine and I was getting much better groups than last time. The problems started again though after I made adjustments with the turrets. So I set up a target and did a box drill to check the tracking. I shot 3rds and then added 8 minutes up (which on this particular target is how far it is to the top bullseye, 4 on the sides and 1 big one in the middle) 3rds and then 8 minutes right, 3rds and 8 minutes back down, and finally 8 minutes right and 3 more rounds. When I checked the target all the groups were pretty good but lower than the first one. The final group was 1 inch lower than the first. So I got another target and shot a five round group and got a nice tight group that was at least 1 inch or maybe a little less. I then turned the elevation up several minutes and back down to zero. The next five rounds made a neat group even smaller than the first, but they were a little over an inch lower. 

   My conclusion is that there must be a problem with the turrets because they are not returning to zero like they should. I ran that same test 3 more times and every time the second group was quite a bit lower than the first. Does anyone else have any ideas?


Edited by unclepauly03
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2007 at 20:07
army_eod View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: May/03/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 445
Yeah..send it back to SWFA.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/18/2007 at 21:32
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 734
Something.well 2 somethings come to mind.

One is a common failure of every model scope, you know, sometimes stuff just happens.
The first failure mode is a weak erector spring, and what you descibe could be that problem.
Sometimes, no matter who makes the scope, a bad part finds its way into the assembly.

Now this one is obsure but it's happened to me.

The set screws on the SS turrets are pointed, and engage the turret adjustment stem.
What happened to me what the turret would seem to make the proper UP adjustment, and windage would track perfectly.
However, when I did a DOWN adjustment,  the turret had slipped just a bit going up, and re-indexed the scale.  The screws would bit into the turret stem and it would seem as though the scope lost its zero setting.
I forgot to PM my gear and the loose screws bit me you know where.
If your scope is tracking fine going up, this ain't it

You might try the screws and see if they rotate inward with very little pressure applied.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2007 at 21:34
unclepauly03 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/03/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Okay, now this is ridiculous. Monday, I called SWFA and spoke with Patty about my problem and asked about getting it replaced. She told me that Bushnell does the warranty work and if I sent in my scope they would send it to Bushnell and when they received the scope back, they would send it back to me. So, I sent in my scope on Tuesday and tracked it there on Wednesday. I was not expecting to get my scope for about a month or so. Today (Friday), I receive a UPS email with a tracking #....My scope is on it's way here!!!! Now, I've read lots of posts on here about SWFA's great customer service, but I have to say that this is the most outstanding experience I've ever had with any company! I just wanted to add my comments to the pile! Also, thanks to all you guys here for all your help, great forum!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2007 at 06:31
raddog View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: January/14/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Same here about SWFA service, told Chris of a problem I had with a ss, he emailed me to send it in to him and get replaced  and mounted back on rifle last night, thanks again SWFA!!
http://i174.photobuck
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2007 at 07:10
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Online
Points: 20469

Originally posted by unclepauly03 unclepauly03 wrote:

Okay, now this is ridiculous. Monday, I called SWFA and spoke with Patty about my problem and asked about getting it replaced. She told me that Bushnell does the warranty work and if I sent in my scope they would send it to Bushnell and when they received the scope back, they would send it back to me. So, I sent in my scope on Tuesday and tracked it there on Wednesday. I was not expecting to get my scope for about a month or so. Today (Friday), I receive a UPS email with a tracking #....My scope is on it's way here!!!! Now, I've read lots of posts on here about SWFA's great customer service, but I have to say that this is the most outstanding experience I've ever had with any company! I just wanted to add my comments to the pile! Also, thanks to all you guys here for all your help, great forum!

 

YO Pauly!!

Did YA think we were kidding about SWFA being the Gold Standard of optics vendors or what??

Forget about it!!!!!!

 

SWFA is UN..Believeable!!

 

 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Super Sniper Problem?"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Super Sniper Problem cyclops24 Tactical Scopes 101
Super Sniper problem noob needs help ZOG Tactical Scopes 30
Super Sniper Scope Problems jetfuel4 Rifle Scopes 56
Super Sniper Sun shade PROBLEM Mangudai_87 Tripods, sun shades, lens covers, etc. 8
super sniper problems bjg2334c Tactical Scopes 3 7/7/2007 11:08:24 AM
Super Sniper focus problem gatordome Rifle Scopes 18 7/14/2007 2:12:24 AM
Problem with Super Sniper 16X tenguage Rifle Scopes 0 9/10/2007 12:28:32 PM
Super Sniper 10x problem frigid Tactical Scopes 13 10/3/2007 11:06:33 AM
Super Sniper Sight Problem dnpindy Tactical Scopes 3 1/8/2006 7:55:59 AM
Super Sniper 20x Screw In Caps ptf18 Tactical Scopes 2


This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.