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Suggest best low light scope?

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mailman7707 View Drop Down
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    Posted: December/13/2006 at 21:47
Now I am totally confused. I had narrowed the decision down finally to the Kahles CL 3-10x50 for my new Rem Mod 700 XCR in .270. Been reading all the propaganda about all the scopes I was interested in- Kahles,Swaro,Zeiss, Meopta. Then I made the mistake of telling my buddies I was going with the 1" tube Kahles CL. They started pulling out all their stock, mostly with 30mm tubes and 56 mm obj's. and with illuminated recticles, Zeiss, Meopta, Nightforce, Leupold(50mm) and how BBBBBBBBBright they all are. Granted we have a long hunting season here (4mos.) and long hunting hours (1 hour prior to sunrise-1 hour after sunset legal shooting time). Also the deer here are very nocturnal, probably moreso than other parts of the country and more often than not they appear about dark:thirty. A good low light scope is a real asset. But I don't like the illum. recticles (Murphy's law-if a battery can go bad it will), just something else to go wrong. Also 56mm is so darn cumbersome. ANYWAY, looking for suggestions, opinions, input, etc. with about $800-1000 budget.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2006 at 21:59
Get the Kahles you planned to get originally.

Take a look at this:

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3828&PN=1

The subject is discussed in some length there.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceylonc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2006 at 22:00

Nothing against your friend's suggestions but there is NO DIFFERENCE in light transmission between a 1" and 30mm scope.  Light transmission has more to do with glass quality and coatings used on the lenses.  After that, front objective size and variable vs. fixed magnification play a small part. 

 

Don't let your buddies confuse you!  I killed a deer about two weeks ago in virtual darkness using a CL with a 52mm objective.  I had no trouble finding & centering the crosshairs so an illuminated reticle was/is a non-issue.

 

Bottom line: buy the CL!  For HUNTING applications that jive with the times you've mentioned you'd have to spend $1,400 and get a S&B or Zeiss VM/V to do any better...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mwyates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2006 at 22:05
Get the CL.  I would like to look through a VX-L with the 56mm objective, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mailman7707 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2006 at 00:16
Thanks guys for confirming my educated gut feeling. After all the reviews I've seen about the CL, I don't see how I could be disappointed with it, even though I have never looked through one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonbravado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2006 at 08:13

The kahles CL is wonderful for the money - get the #4 reticle for lowlight - it's what i have in all my deer scopes.

 

and enjoy - you made the right choice.  You scope will be brighter than most of your buddies' scopes, i bet.

 

but 56mm is not THAT much bigger than 50mm  - my 2 cents - i am a fan of the big bell.

 

J

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceylonc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2006 at 16:27
Originally posted by jonbravado jonbravado wrote:

 

but 56mm is not THAT much bigger than 50mm  - my 2 cents - i am a fan of the big bell.

 

J

 

Me too!  I know that's heresy but I have yet to have a big-bell scope noticably throw off the balance of a rifle.  Never affected my shooting one little bit...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mailman7707 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/14/2006 at 23:43

Yes, I agree. 56mm would be nice. Now if we could talk Kahles into offering the CL in 56mm, wow!  They have the 4-12x52. How about the 3-12x56 Helia C with 30mm tube? Is this the same quality (glass, coatings, construction, etc.) as the CL? I assume it is basically the same as the CL, just larger obj. and tube? I see it is offered in the Sample List for 999.95. Opinions???? Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2006 at 07:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonbravado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2006 at 08:13

3-12x56 Helia C with 30mm tube

 

buy it - you won't be sorry one bit - it's the same coatings as the CL without the side focus -

 

it is a phenomenal scope for the money -

 

have you looked through the meopta meostar 56mm yet? you should, if you haven't -

 

it is amazing and less expensive.  super clear and bright.

 

but if you must have kahles, that's the scope.  let us know what you decide.

 

J

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbroadnax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2006 at 10:00
A good friend of mine mounted 5 different scopes on a single board so he could easily compare them side by side.  The list included all the high end models and all were priced over a thousand bucks.  He said the brightest was the Zeiss Diavari 3x12x56.  This comparison was completely un-biased. The comparsion was consistent with magnication and consistent eye relief in mind. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonbravado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2006 at 10:04

that IS a great scope, if you have the money -

 

can ANYONE back me up on the meostar 3-12x56????

 

it is almost as bright and clear as the high end swaros and zeiss diavaris...........

most people couldn't tell a differenence. 

 

Damn, meopta needs to market them. 

It beat the 56mm conquest AND the 1200 dollar swaro at a local gunshop 'test'.

 

i have one, and couldn't be happier.

 

J

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2006 at 12:58

Meopta Meostar scopes offer alot of value with very high quality glass and components.

Honarable mentions in this line include the 7x56,3-12x56 and 1-4x22, you will be hard

pressed to find this level of quality in scopes at this price range.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceylonc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2006 at 14:15

Originally posted by jbroadnax jbroadnax wrote:

A good friend of mine mounted 5 different scopes on a single board so he could easily compare them side by side.  The list included all the high end models and all were priced over a thousand bucks.  He said the brightest was the Zeiss Diavari 3x12x56.  This comparison was completely un-biased. The comparsion was consistent with magnication and consistent eye relief in mind. 

 

I agree.  I did the same test with the 52mm CL, 35mm IOR with 50mm bell, and 56mm Diavari VM/V.  To my eyes the Zeiss was the brightest.  Problem is the pricing!!!  VERY EXPENSIVE but you do get what you pay for...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/15/2006 at 14:23
Originally posted by ceylonc ceylonc wrote:

Originally posted by jbroadnax jbroadnax wrote:

A good friend of mine mounted 5 different scopes on a single board so he could easily compare them side by side.  The list included all the high end models and all were priced over a thousand bucks.  He said the brightest was the Zeiss Diavari 3x12x56.  This comparison was completely un-biased. The comparsion was consistent with magnication and consistent eye relief in mind. 

 

I agree.  I did the same test with the 52mm CL, 35mm IOR with 50mm bell, and 56mm Diavari VM/V.  To my eyes the Zeiss was the brightest.  Problem is the pricing!!!  VERY EXPENSIVE but you do get what you pay for...

 

+1, I really do believe Zeiss VM is a great value, the Zeiss compares very well to the top scopes in the world

and offers many many nice models with various configurations of power,reticles,tubes and focal planes to suit

alot of different shooting needs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mailman7707 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2006 at 21:00
Narrowing it down, sounds like from the perspective of price, value, quality, most bang for the buck (pardon the pun), it's between the Meostar and the Kahles Helia C in 3-12x56. Zeiss would be great, but price about knocks it out of the race. Opinions? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceylonc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2006 at 09:39

Originally posted by mailman7707 mailman7707 wrote:

Narrowing it down, sounds like from the perspective of price, value, quality, most bang for the buck (pardon the pun), it's between the Meostar and the Kahles Helia C in 3-12x56. Zeiss would be great, but price about knocks it out of the race. Opinions? Thanks.

 

Sounds about right to me.  Admittedly, I don't know much about the Meostar but they come highly touted from opinions that I value...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mailman7707 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2006 at 22:42
Thanks for all the help guys! I just took the plunge on a Kahles Helia C 3-12x56 which includes mounts for a Remington Model 700 and Butler Creek lens caps! It is purportedly in "Like new" condition. Can't wait to get my hands on it, get it mounted on my new XCR, and do my own field testing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonbravado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2006 at 09:41

great choice - you won't be sorry.

 

let us know how much it blows you away!!!!!

 

J

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2006 at 13:25
Fine choice mailman7707. Let us know how you like your scope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mailman7707 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2006 at 16:30
Originally posted by jonbravado jonbravado wrote:

great choice - you won't be sorry.

 

let us know how much it blows you away!!!!!

 

J

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mailman7707 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2006 at 17:07

Originally posted by SVD666 SVD666 wrote:

Fine choice mailman7707. Let us know how you like your scope.
  Just to follow up, I received the scope last week, mounted it the same day, sighted it in last Saturday, took it to the woods Tuesday, and dropped a large doe 8:30 that AM about 125 yards, perfect quartering shot in the shoulder. Bright, clear, crisp, awsome optics! I was in the stand about 45 minutes before sunrise and could have shot about 30 minutes prior to official sunrise on a very cloudy day! Same results that afternoon, although I saw no deer. Still very cloudy, sunset about 5:17 PM; 5:45 no problem; 6:00 I could see in the open part of a small field in front of me and behind me, but was a little more difficult looking in the darker shadows of the wooded areas. All in all, I would say that I could see up until the point that the only way to see, would have been with night vision. Absolutely excellent scope!!!! Love the 4A reticle!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2006 at 21:24
Great choice in optics.  But, I have to admit in being a cheap ass, I have had too many experiences with medium glass glass that has kept me out of that class of optics.  I have bagged deer at  almost dark with optics at half the price of the Kahles and have never looked back.  I am not saying you got a great scope, but sometimes you have to stick with what you have.  Great hunting and a great and a great scope buy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2006 at 01:13
Originally posted by mailman7707 mailman7707 wrote:

Originally posted by SVD666 SVD666 wrote:

Fine choice mailman7707. Let us know how you like your scope.
  Just to follow up, I received the scope last week, mounted it the same day, sighted it in last Saturday, took it to the woods Tuesday, and dropped a large doe 8:30 that AM about 125 yards, perfect quartering shot in the shoulder. Bright, clear, crisp, awsome optics! I was in the stand about 45 minutes before sunrise and could have shot about 30 minutes prior to official sunrise on a very cloudy day! Same results that afternoon, although I saw no deer. Still very cloudy, sunset about 5:17 PM; 5:45 no problem; 6:00 I could see in the open part of a small field in front of me and behind me, but was a little more difficult looking in the darker shadows of the wooded areas. All in all, I would say that I could see up until the point that the only way to see, would have been with night vision. Absolutely excellent scope!!!! Love the 4A reticle!!!!

 

Exellent Mailman,great field test and review. I wish you luck on your next hunt.

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