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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 08:00
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  So I've got a good solid,well penetrating,smooth,even,spar urethane finish on this stock. 
  How do I knock down the sheen without messing it up?
 
  


Edited by 300S&W - February/03/2012 at 09:19
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where is bigdaddy and rifledude when you need them??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 08:07
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  It's still early. 
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Whats wrong with shiney?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 08:26
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  Nothing really but it's my 98 Mauser stock and I kinda like the old English rifle looking finish.  I do think this shiney finish would be easy to touch up dings on.
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You should be able to buff it with triple F. I have not tryed to dull a urethane finish yet. If you try this let me know how it works out.
 
If it were mine to refinish I would stay away from the urethane finish. Its to hard to work with and to fix a mess up is more trouble than it's worth. I would strip it off, lightly sand the stock back down to the semi stainded wood and restain close the the tone it is or was. then 0000 steel and buff it a little and tru oil and hang, repeat in red 15 to 20 times depending on how the wood takes it. Then after the last buffing with 0000 steel wool I would buff really good with triple F and then wax it. It will give the stock a deep luster with the grain but not have a polished look to it.
 
This was before buffing with the 0000 steel wool and triple F and waxing. It still has the "shine" to it
 
 
This was after the last 0000, triple F, and waxing. you can see into the grain a little better and it dosn't have the "shine glare" to it. This is also very sealed and easy to fix anything that might knick or scratch it. i guess this would be called a semi shine.
 
 
 
As always if you need call or send it to me and I'll help the best I can to get it like you want it.
 
 
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 THANKS,Bd.
 
  Even though this is only the second stock I've used this finish on I find it easy to work with and HIGHLY water resistant(if not actually waterproof).  I've found the trick with this stuff (many trials and errors Whacko) is to apply it in many THIN coats using your finger and to not use it full strength.  I hunted in lots of rain last yr and when I pulled the action out of the stock after season all looked good inside and out. I'm going to be ordering a bbl band from Brownell's before long so I'll give that triple f some thought.  Main thing that concerns me with any buffing is the possibility of scratches left in the finish.  Should I let this stock sit for a while before trying anything?
 
  I LIKE the color of your stock!  English walnut?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 09:14
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that is absolutely beautiful BD... such warm and rich color and depth.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 09:41
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The triple is so fine you shouldn't have and scratches in the finish
 
No. it some cheap wood savage use on there single shot 22lr,15A I think is the modle. it turnes out fairly nice.
 
 
Thanks dyelynn
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Sell it and get a matte synthetic! Big Smile

On furniture pieces I've built, I've used the white finishing pads (similar to Scotch-Brite). They have about the texture of fine steel wool, but don't leave any residue. That should knock it down a bit.

(In reference to my first remark, you know I don't like anything shinier than dirt when it comes to firearms).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 09:47
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   Yea,I'd say "fairly nice".
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There is a trick I have tought myself over the years to make not so great wood look the part of higher class stuff. Its hard to explain how I do it but would be alot easyer to show.
 
 
 
So far all the people who bring me there stock for refinishing have been happy. out of all the stocks I have done a guy complained about a dent I couldn't get out with seating the wood. The rifle feel over and hit a steel step and the forearm had a 1/2 deep dent in it. I got it to 1/16th of an inch but he still didn't like it. I finaly reshaped the forearm to get it out. he was happy with it after that it just didn't look right if you knew about it and it fell really small in your hands.
 
Just playing I took a butt stock to a rem742 and soaked it in water for a few days so it would swell. I then baked it at 150 degrees for a few hour to dry it fast and then hung it to dry in the hot box for a few weeks. I was wanting to grain to open up while wet and stay open on a fast/slow dry. It worked really good but I had to spend to much time on triiming where it went into the action and it stayed +sized also. it was a neat little play test and turned out pretty neat. I just keep waiting on it to shrink and not fit at all now. I also had to refit the butt plate. I'm getting fairly good at building custom butt plates also.lol
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 10:09
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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Sell it and get a matte synthetic! Big Smile

On furniture pieces I've built, I've used the white finishing pads (similar to Scotch-Brite). They have about the texture of fine steel wool, but don't leave any residue. That should knock it down a bit.

(In reference to my first remark, you know I don't like anything shinier than dirt when it comes to firearms).
 
  
    I've been doing synthetics for YEARS.  When I decided to build "a one rifle for all" synthetic got the nod.  I want to make this rifle kind of "old style" hence the dull finish wood stock (shiney is for Weatherbys).  I do like the looks of fine wood.  Just don't want to have to worry about the weather when hunting it. 
 
    So where would I find those pads? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 10:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 11:15
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  Seems to be fine enough.
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A friend of mine builds custom longbows and recurves for a living- some of the best on the market. I know for a fact that he uses high gloss finish (some kind of epoxy or urethane, not sure exacty what since he has switched over the years), and then uses very fine steel wool to get rid of the shine. Gloss versions of wood finish are generally harder and more durable, which is why he starts with the gloss in the first place. His bows have to look amazing and be waterproof for years, or he wouldn't still be in business. I always wondered why people don't do the exact same thing with rifle stocks, since it works so well in the high end custom bow business...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 12:08
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  THANKS for the reply,Jason.
 
  I'm guessing your friend uses a two part epoxy for his bows.  And it is being used on stocks. In fact it seems to be the latest (and some say the best) in waterproof finishes for rifle stocks.  But it doesn't seem to be to a good choice for beginners to start with.  A urethane gloss finish can be either hard or soft depending on the base.  Water base=hard.  Oil base=soft.  Mine is oil based.  I had a factory stock at one time that had a finish so hard it would actually crack if hit on a hard object.  I saw a mention of using 0000 synthetic "steel" wool and am keeping it as an option.  Alot of people say not to use real steel wool on wood. Wonder which your bud uses?
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My mom uses urathane matte, and then buffs out the shine with 000 or 0000 steel.  I like the looks of it.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2012 at 15:13
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  I've got some of the "satin" in the same brand.  I'm going to try a thin coat of it to see what happens.  Columbus took a chance.  Bucky
 
 
  By the way.  NICE looking buck.
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I would use the progressive wet sand method to cut down the sheen and give it a satin "hand rubbed" look.  I use the same method used by a couple of the more prominent custom stock makers.  In fact, I learned this method from an instructional video that stockmaker Joe Balickie did 15-20 years ago.

Get the following grades of AUTOMOTIVE wet/dry sandpaper:

400 grit
600 grit
800 grit
1000 or 1200 grit

Buy a square gum / rubber eraser (the kind you get with school supplies or art & crafts stores) to use as a sanding block.  The eraser will flex and keep your sandpaper evenly controlled on the curved surfaces of the wood.

Buy a roll of Bounty paper towels without any printed decoration on it (plain white).

Pour a small amount of the same finish you used to fill the pores of the stock into a shallow pan.

Lay out a large piece of plastic sheet on the floor, because you will drip finish onto the floor below you.  It doesn't hurt to wear a plastic apron for the same reason, to keep finish from getting on your clothes and skin.

Wrap a piece of the 400 grit sandpaper around the eraser/sanding block and dip the sandpaper in the finish.  Dipping the sandpaper in the finish does 2 things:  it acts as a lubricant so the sandpaper cuts smoother and cleaner without burning through the finish, and it also keeps forcing finish into any remaining open pores.  Wet sand a small portion of the stock at a time, then wipe the wet finish off with a clean paper towel and look at it carefully under a good light to make sure you have an even sheen without shiny spots.  You want to bring the finish down nearly to or right at the surface of the wood, so the finish is IN rather than ON the wood.  In other words, the finish should be filling the pores with only a slight layer remaining on the surface.  Continue until you have all surfaces of the stock wet sanded.  In areas where you want to maintain sharp edges / lines, such as in the comb flutes, around cheekpiece shadow lines, action port cutout details, and the bolt handle slot, use a wood block as your sanding block so that your sanding block doesn't wrap around the edge and round off the corners of your details, and cut completely through the finish in the process.  In tight radiuses, use wooden dowels and radiator hose as your sanding blocks to maintain controlled radiuses.  Stop just at the point that it looks good and has the sheen you're looking for.  Keep rotating the stock under the light to verify you've removed all shiny spots.  Again, do a small section of the stock at a time, then move on.

Repeat the entire process of wet sanding and wiping, using the finish as a lubricant, with each of the progressively finer grits of sandpaper listed above, allowing one day of dry time between each sanding session.  The progressively finer grits removes the sanding scratches from the previous coarser grit.  When you get past 600 grit, you're really doing more polishing than actually removing finish.  If the wood pores were adequately filled at the beginning stages of applying your finish, you won't be completely removing the finish and opening pores by cutting it back to the wood surface, as long as you don't go nuts and sand too much.

Once you are finished wet sanding with all the grades above, let the stock completely dry for a day or two, then rub the hell out of it with an old cotton T-shirt or other clean cotton material.  This does the final polish.  If you've cut the finish back to the wood and don't have excessive buildup on the surface, you won't get a glossy finish, but instead a very fine satin oil look.

After the wet sanding and before the cotton cloth polish, I sometimes like to do a final rub down with a felt pad, linseed oil, and rottenstone or pumice.  You can buy a stock rubbing kit with all these supplies in it from Brownells and other gun-related suppliers.  Just like the wet sanding method, the linseed oil is used as a sanding lubricant, and the rottenstone or pumice is your sanding grit.  It is a very fine grit -- 000 to 0000 level.  You just soak the felt pad in some of the linseed oil, sprinkle some rottenstone / pumice into the wet surface of the pad and start rubbing.  Rub an area, then wipe it off with a clean paper towel.  Continue until you have the entire stock rubbed.  This last step helps to even out the sheen of the stock, so you don't have some areas shinier or duller than others.  It really gives the stock that old fashioned hand rubbed oil look, even with tough finishes like polyurethanes.

My favorite finish is Permalyn Sealer, by Laurel Mountain Forge.  It is a very thin finish that penetrates very well, and it is classified as an oil-modified polyurethane, meaning it has the final toughness of a polyurethane, but it can be rubbed in like an oil and has the appearance of an oil after wet sanding.

I don't use steel wool at all most of the time, just the wet/dry sandpaper wet sanding method.  The reason is because the steel wool breaks off into tiny pieces and it can be difficult to make sure you have every tiny piece of steel wool wiped off the stock before applying more finish.  It's very easy to get tiny pieces of steel wool embedded into the wood surface without noticing it and getting it sealed up inside later applications of finish.  Then one day when you have the stock you put so much effort into in bright sunlight, you notice a shiny metallic spot in your finish.

I hope this helps.  There are many ways to achieve good results.  The key is to be patient and know when "enough is enough."


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2012 at 16:38
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   Bd:
  "I'm getting fairly good at building custom butt plates also. lol" 
 
    +1 !!
 
 
    Joe Balickie?  Excellent
    THANKS,Ted. Definitely food for thought.  I've read about knocking off the sheen to the desired level using rottenstone and linseed oil.  So far it's what I may try.  The thing about this "spar" urethane is that it stays flexible so it gives with the movements of boat masts and such so I'm a bit hesitant about using abrasives on the nice finish I've got now.  Honestly I could live with the gloss but if it was just a matter of just rubbing it down with something to dull it I'd be happier.  My goals, after finding a finishing technique I felt comfortable trying, was to have a finish that brought out the best of the looks of the wood as possible considering the technique used but mainly to provide a weather resistant finish. Without going into detail I'll just say that this finish does provide more than adequate protection.
   Oh,the satin urethane over the gloss didn't work.  But at least I'm back to a finish I can be statisfied with.
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Ok, I talked to my mom and this is how she did both of my stocks.  She used satin urathane.  She did four to six coats sanding each coat with 600 grit sandpaper.  Once that was done, she wiped each coat with a damp cloth to pick up anything left.  Final was to rub it down with 000 and 0000 steel wool an wipe it again.  I think they turned out nice.
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  Your mom's done what I've read about but there are variations in materials used. Did she use std urethane or spar? I've read not to use steel wool on spar because of it being flexible the steel wool dust can get embedded in the finish. But then there is the synthetic stuff. 
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She used urethane.  It is what she typically uses on all of the furniture she has redone whether she stains it or not.  It does run, but she is good at what she does, and how she positions it.  I do most of the rough and final sanding on my stock.  Them my perfectionist dad takes over, and does fine sanding till I think the wood shines on it own.  Then my mom does all the finish work.  I need to learn to do it on my own, but it looks so good when she does it.
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 I'm sure!  Practice makes perfect and it sounds like she gets ALOT of it.  The urethane she uses is the harder setting kind I'm figuring. It seems the methods for toning down the sheen are all similar it's the materials used that are different. If I wasn't as far along as I am I'd have followed Ted's procedure from start to finish.  But I've got time to decide how to tackle this thing.  I just did what I hope is a final touch up. If it looks as good in the morning as it does now it'll be sitting for at least a month to cure.
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