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Startling new Leupold info

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 14:21
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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This is posted as shocking new information regarding Leupold vs Zeiss as a Leupold fan sees it: The last line is my favorite.

 

"Which is better ? Zeiss will try to tell you that they are. Strickly speaking a 3-9X40 conquest might test out 1-2% brighter than a Leupold, but, then again it might not. You'll have lots of fun trying to see any difference.
There are those who are convinced that Zeiss Conquests are brighter and sharper. But they really are not aware of what they are looking at. For instance, to compare each, you need to make sure they are set on the same actual magnification. There is a difference between the indicated and actual magnification. Then there is the difference between how easily these scopes focus. The Leupolds usually take longer to get to their very best. Most believe that all you must do is make the reticle sharp and you are done. No. You can then focus the image for a particular range. Since Zeiss uses the euro focusing system, they are much closer to maximum image sharpness than many Leupolds are if all you do is sharpen the reticle. I have, for instance, an older VariXIII that I can see .30 caliber groups form at 300 yds. Few realize that these scopes can do this.
The Zeiss Conquest has some significant differences in eye box and eye relief from a VXII 3-9X40. Basically the lower magnifications of the Leupold have much more leeway as to where your head must be to see the full image of the scope, and a bit longer eye relief.
Leupold scopes don't go through the type of testing that Zeiss's do, which literally shortens the life of a Zeiss scope. Not much of a concern for a 7-08 however. Leupold is the toughest scope made, so say the vast majority of custom rifle makers.
There are no difference in ruggedness of their reticles etc. The Zeiss reticles may be a little heavier. Leupold has lots of options in this area.
Don't fall for the non sense that the Conquest 3-9X40 compares to the 3.5-10X40 VXIII. They are a 3-9X, abeit they do have a bit more actual magnification. They are much closer to the cheaper VXII in both brightnes and actual magnification. E"



Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 14:45
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Get a Leupold....no a Leupold.........

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 15:10
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Who the heck is "E"??

Eremicus??

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 15:21
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You got it!!! This dude is whacked.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 15:28
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No doubt.

 

I haven't seen him around in a while.

He used to hang out over at Accurate Reloading years ago.

 

That guy's as screwed up as a lab rat. 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 15:32
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This is the same guy who has stated that he can see better through a Leupold 6x42 than he can through a Leica 8x42 bino in poor light. Stop laughing, I'm serious.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 15:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 15:41
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Excellent use of the emoticons, my friend.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 15:46
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Thanks cheap,likewise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 18:33
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Yep, Eremicus has spent a fair amount of time trying to convince me that (in no particular order): I do not understand optics, laws of physics do not apply to Leupolds, laws of physics do not apply to him specifically when he is using a Leupold scope, human physiology has no bearing on him specifically, etc.  Basically, the best I can tell he is not of the same species as the rest of us.  He may very well be the first penguin to learn to use a computer.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 18:50
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This is all too funny!  I'm glad someone else feels the same way about "E" as I do!  Now, let's see if I can find an appropriate emoticon:

 

         or how about  .

 

 

Steve

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 20:16
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Yep, Eremicus has spent a fair amount of time trying to convince me that (in no particular order): I do not understand optics, laws of physics do not apply to Leupolds, laws of physics do not apply to him specifically when he is using a Leupold scope, human physiology has no bearing on him specifically, etc.  Basically, the best I can tell he is not of the same species as the rest of us.  He may very well be the first penguin to learn to use a computer.

ILya

 

That's a kick in the balls to a penguin.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 22:01
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Now I am a very strong believer of people being entitled to their own opinions. But some people are just full of

 

[bad stuff].

 

And/or have been brainwashed by extensive use of advertising, which is the primary reason for their high prices.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 22:06
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I haven't head about E since the Shooters.com days, he used to quote some DEVA test like it was the bible.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 22:13
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Roy introduced me to E's postings.  I am still trying to figure out what I did to Roy to deserve this.

E is pretty knowledgeable...  for a penguin.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2007 at 22:31
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Chris, he is still using the DEVA test results as if they were conducted yesterday. They were conducted in 1993, IIRC. It ain't just Zeiss he bashes, Swaro is right up there too. Did you know that Swaro intentionally mis marks their power adjustment rings so that they will "appear" brighter than a Leupold? According to "E" the only scope that "might" be brighter than a Leupold is the Zeiss VM/V series. Of course, all the recoil testing negates any possibility of mounting them on anything north of a 22LR.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 01:40
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I just went over to the largest gun store in the area to look at scopes. I was all set on the Conquest when I started talking to their scope "expert." He did seem like he had a great deal of international hunting experience so I listened to his opinion. He did not have a very high opinion of the zeiss conquest satiating that its a simple scope that lacks features and costs 2x more than its worth due to the zeiss name. He was adamant the Leopold VX-III was vastly superior in optics, durability and warranty. He has seen many VX-III on African hunts but no one even considers the conquest for the job. He stated its not a proven, reliable, serious hunting scope like the proven Leopold. He said because the conquest was made in the usa you don't know what you are getting so you cant rely on the reputations of the other German zeiss lines.  He satiated that all optics in the Leupold VX-III where coated where as the Zeiss only had front and rear lenses coated. He thought zeiss was asking a premium German price for a budget scope that was made to a different standard in the US. The VXIII was out of my price range at over so I asked about the VX-II and he said not to waste my money. The VX-II is about the same as the VX-I and essentially a Kmart scope. He said getting a $300 Nikon would get me the most for my money. I must say that I did look closely at the Nikons and they did really perform.

Based on looking at scopes in the parking lot at dusk I thought the Nikon monarch was the better than the leupold and it was about $200 cheaper. They didn't have a conquest in stock to compare. However I'm getting tired of looking about and based on the recommendations of everyone here I'm just going to get the Zeiss in spite of what that guy said because I just don't think I'm in his league (They don't give me shirts covered in shooting patches) therefore I shouldn't concern myself with his expensive tastes.

I found the Conquest for $372 shipped and I will order it monday. The VX-II would cost about that after tax so between the VX-II and the Conquest I figure its a better choice but "not in the same league as the African proven VX-III."

I must say though, $300 worth of Nikon really looks to get you a sweet scope. I was very impressed with its optics. If you all hadn't liked the conquest so much I would definitely be getting that one as to me it looked the best even though it was not the most expensive.  

 

Basically I think it comes down to this. For what ever reason the conquest has a fallowing on this board. Optically I donít think the masses will notice a difference. The observation that the conquest is new and produced differently therefore not yet proven seems valid. The observation the VX-III (or similar leupold) has been taken all over the world by tons of people and proven consistently durable and reliable also seems valid. Perhaps in a few years the conquest will earn the same reputation. Thus my point is that practaly it doesnít seem to be about optics but rather reputation and the USA Zeiss seems to be a new comer according to the guy who ďhunts dangerous African game for a living.Ē

As a new comer thatís the only logical thing Iím taking from this whole debate.



Edited by rtavernetti
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 02:16
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rtavernetti it is my opinion that you should spend more time here at the OT, I am willing to bet that your interpetation of optics talk reviews,shop owners,magazines,companies, etc.... will not be as you have described.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 02:42
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I know your right and thats exactly why I tusted the the info on the board an went with the zeiss. Every person I have asked in the last two days gave me a different answer, or showed some new differnet point of view, so I'm not sure how to make sense of all this. I thought I would just lay my expierence out there as a neophite to see if others, with more of the expierence that you mention, would draw the same conclusions or intrept things differently based on my story.

Edited by rtavernetti
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 02:55
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Originally posted by rtavernetti rtavernetti wrote:

As a new comer thatís the only logical thing Iím taking from this whole debate.

 

this is not a debate, it is a thread started by one member who posted a quote from someone else on a different, forum. He did this probably because he didn't wan't to start a firefight on the other forum, and he knew that just about every regular on this forum would think that it was total crap, and add funny comments to it and genius use of emoticons.

 

The one thing that I dont like about ziess is that the turrets aren't really organized in any way, so you have to count your clicks out when adjusting.

 

there is a simple reason why leupold is so popular, its because they advertise [to no end]. how often have you seen a zeiss ad in any form? I have seen one at the top of this forum occasionally, and thats about it. Leupold on the other hand has crammed their logo in almost every place that I look. This generates a great deal of advertising costs, which is passed on to the consumer.

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 03:11
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A lot of things are subjective, certainly.  Not all, however.  Also, keep in mind that I am the guy who generally refuses to own any German products, so I am not an overawed Zeiss fan, but I call them the way I see them.

Looking at your gun shop experience, here are a few comments:

"where as the Zeiss only had front and rear lenses coated"  That's an outright lie.  Conquests are fully multicoated.   Coonquest glass is made in Europe (by Meopta) and imported here. 

Conquest mechanicals are made in Germany and imported to the US.  The only thing that happens here in the US is the assembly.  Even that happens with pretty strict German oversight.

Incidentally, VX-III line has not been around any longer than the Conquest.  Zeiss reputation is riding on the quality of Zeiss products, Conquest included.

Whether the optical difference between VX-III and Conquest is noticeable or not is certainly subjective, but so far the only people who can not see that difference are die hard Leupold fans.  I periodically have my wife and other family members look through a few scopes at a resolution chart (as a sanity check really).  They have no clue whatsoever what Leupold or Zeiss are, but they can see the difference in how well they can see through a scope. 

As a general observation, I have run into a gun store employee who knows anything about guns exactly twice.  Most do not know anything. 

With optics it is even worse.  I have not yet seen a single person working in a gun store who know anything about scopes or binoculars.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 06:51
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Good post, Koshkin.

 

The Zeiss Conquest raised the bar for all the other midlevel scope makers.

 

The VXIII is nothing more than Conquest clone.

So for all the Leupold lovers out there....If you like your VXIII, you have the Zeiss Conquest to thank for it.  

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 08:54
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Originally posted by rtavernetti rtavernetti wrote:

I know your right and thats exactly why I tusted the the info on the board an went with the zeiss. Every person I have asked in the last two days gave me a different answer, or showed some new differnet point of view, so I'm not sure how to make sense of all this. I thought I would just lay my expierence out there as a neophite to see if others, with more of the expierence that you mention, would draw the same conclusions or intrept things differently based on my story.

 

rtavernetti, just for the record, this post was started for humor purposes only. If you are looking for honest and open-minded opinions based on real life field experiences you need not look any further than where you are right here.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 11:26
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I'm afraid "E" gives those of us that like Leupold for all the "right" reasons a bad name
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2007 at 12:42
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Originally posted by mwyates mwyates wrote:

I'm afraid "E" gives those of us that like Leupold for all the "right" reasons a bad name

 

I have to agree with that. It is pretty obvious from the tbone scale, and it's variants, that Leupold are good scopes. They are a bit more expensive than comparable scopes form other brands. I have said before that I'm not selling off my Leupolds because they all work pretty good for hunting. They are all M8 and VariX-III and are good at what they do. Too bad more people don't come here so that they can make informed opinions for themselves. I get a kick out of people like E, though. What a moron.

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