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Starter mid-LR scope for .223 and mildot?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2009 at 11:09
greywolf View Drop Down
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OK, here's my situation:

Just starting to get into shooting past 300 yards with any consistency.  Just found a range that goes out to 1000 yards (vs the range I normally use which is limited to 200 yards once a month, 100 yards all other days - yeah, I know - WTF?)

I'd like to start off by using my Tikka T3 rifle in .223 with handloads to get a feel for long range shooting out to 500 or so yards.  Cheaper, lighter recoil, can get the wife involved, etc.

Then start using the 6.5x55 Tikka T3, 6.5 Grendel AR, Tikka WhiteTail Hunter .30-06, and eventually the LaRua OSR rifle in .308 when it arrives in about 6 months.

I'm hoping that during that time I can try out different configurations, optics, etc.

Currently I have NO mildot optics - here is what I have to choose from that I currently own:

Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 with #4
Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 with Z-plex
Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 with Z-plex
Zeiss Conquest 4-14x44 with Rapid Z 800
Zeiss Conquest 3-12x56 MC with FFP #8 reticle
Simmons 6.5-20x50 fine plex WhiteTail Classic (currently mounted on Tikka .223)


So, what do you think?  I'd like to get a scope (or use a current one) that can get me out to 500 yards at the range, and so that I can use it for varmint hunting out to 500 yards on the .223 - I'd like either a mildot or some sort of ranging or bullet drop reticle, would really prefer FFP, and would like enough magnification to see a small target, but not low-quality optics so that at 14-16x it isn't blurry or foggy (a problem I expect out of the Simmons scope).

Is there such a scope?  Would a Falcon Menace 4-14 or perhaps one of the new 5-25x56 jobs do the trick?  I like a lot of eye relief (just a preference I acquired from my Conquests with 3.5-4.0" eye relief).  I don't like "fussy" scopes where if you barely move your eye you lose the sight picture or it narrows (if you know what I mean - maybe I need to explain better?)

Ask any questions you believe are relevant so I can narrow things down here.  Weight isn't a huge issue on this rifle, though if I eventually migrate the scope elsewhere it could be - but for now let's just keep it simple.  I don't know if I'm comfortable with a fixed mag scope, though I'd be open to listening.  Have just always had variables and like the flexibility.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2009 at 14:38
greywolf View Drop Down
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Was also wondering if the Sightron S3 6-24x50 Mildot would work well for this?  I can only assume that the optics are much better than the Simmons - LOL.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2009 at 14:49
koshkin View Drop Down
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Sightron S3 6-24x50 would work very well for this. 

With that out of the wa, I have a couple of comments.

I am in the same boat as you are: learning to shoot long range.

If you are serious about shooting long range, you should use a scope with good, repeatable and easy to grab knobs and learn to click.  Reticle holdover works adequately well out to about 400-500 yards, but beyond that you pretty much have to use the knobs.

If you want to use a reticle to estimate range, by all means get one with a Mil-Dot or similar reticle, but for trajectory compensation, you might as well get into the habit of using knobs.

For that, Sightron S3 6-24x50 would work beatifully since it has veyr nice knobs and a lot of adjustment range.

If you want to spend less money, you can simply get a 10x42 Super Sniper and keep it simple: no need to worry what magnificaiton you are at and the knobs are very repeatable.

If you decide to go with a variable, there are alot of good choices, but with any scope that has a ranging reticle in the second focal plane, you have to make sure you check the exact reticle dimensions at the range.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2009 at 15:10
greywolf View Drop Down
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Thanks, Ilya.  I respect your advice and opinions an awful lot given all that I have read from you and about you.
 
I am really, REALLY hoping to have the money saved up for the Premier scope by the time my OSR arrives - I know it is probably severe overkill for my intended purposes, but damnit, I want the best and I have the money to do it, so why not invest in the best and keep it for a lifetime, eh?  From you and others have said about the glass, it is just simply amazing and cannot be matched.
 
If I can find a really good price on a Sightron S3 6-24x50 I'll get one.  Otherwise I may wait for the new Vortex FFP Razor scope coming out soon, or the new Falcon Menace 5-25x56 with FFP . . . . . . but I'm still a little leery about the limited warranty on the Falcon, and I don't know if the price point of the Vortex is going to be closer to $1000 new.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2009 at 17:38
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You are welcome, greywolf.

Premier is an excellent scope, and worth saving money for.  As far as the new Vortex Razor scopes go, I suspect that they will be considered competition to Premier, rather than a stepping stone.  They will certainly be cheaper than Premier or S&B or Hensoldt, but still fairly expensive.  I will talk to the Vortex guys to see if there is already a price estimate, but I doubt it will be particularly cheap.  Price wise, I would expect it to compete well against Nightforce and IOR and be cheaper than S&B, Premier and Hensoldt.  As soon as there is anything I can disclose on price, I will post it here.

If you are looking for a quality SFP scope with a MilDot, here is a cheaper alternative to the Sightron: Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 with MilDot.

Still, if you are just shoppin gfor a "stepping stone" scope, save your money and get a Super Sniper.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2009 at 18:39
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So you really think that a SS 10x with mildot will be all I'll need at least for now for what I intend to do, with any of the listed rifles, out to say 600-800 yards?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2009 at 18:47
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Originally posted by greywolf greywolf wrote:

So you really think that a SS 10x with mildot will be all I'll need at least for now for what I intend to do, with any of the listed rifles, out to say 600-800 yards?


Yes, I do.  For learning to shoot long range without excessive expense, I can not think of anything better.

If you are looking to shoot itty-bitty groups or use the rifle for varmints or for any other application that needs a lot of magnification, then buying a Sightron S3 6-24x50 or Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 is totally justified.

Otherwise, go with a Super Sniper.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/11/2009 at 07:20
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Would the 68MOA of the Vortex be adequate for 500 yards with a .223 and 1000 yards for a .308/6.5 Grendel?  There is about a $300 difference between the S3 and the Viper - the main differences between the two on paper is:

S3 has 100 MOA, Viper has 66
S3 has 3.6-3.8 eye relief, Viper has 3.1-3.3
S3 is .9 oz heavier and .6" longer
S3 has 16.1-3.9 FOV, Viper has 17.4-6.2 FOV (which surprises me - I wonder why the large discrepancy in the FOV?)

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/11/2009 at 18:19
koshkin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by greywolf greywolf wrote:

Would the 68MOA of the Vortex be adequate for 500 yards with a .223 and 1000 yards for a .308/6.5 Grendel?  There is about a $300 difference between the S3 and the Viper - the main differences between the two on paper is:

S3 has 100 MOA, Viper has 66
S3 has 3.6-3.8 eye relief, Viper has 3.1-3.3
S3 is .9 oz heavier and .6" longer
S3 has 16.1-3.9 FOV, Viper has 17.4-6.2 FOV (which surprises me - I wonder why the large discrepancy in the FOV?)



I think both the Vortex and the Sightron have enough adjustment range, but ultimately the Sightron is a better long range scope (hence the price difference).  This really comes down to how much you want to spend and I was simply giving you more options.

As for the field of view discrepancies, Vortex is a 6.5-20x and Sightron is a 6-24x.  The quoted fields of view are at different magnifications (low and high for each scope), hence the difference.  Additionally, the field of view is affected by the optical design and the Viper, with its shorter eye relief, is likely to have somewhat wider field of view if set at the same magnification.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/11/2009 at 19:01
greywolf View Drop Down
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Ahh, gotcha - thought that the S3 was a 20x, but this makes sense now for the lower FOV.
 
Hmm, decisions decisions - I can get the Viper (plus free $100 bins) for $450, but a new S3 would be around $750-$800
 
Ouch.
 
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