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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2007 at 22:49
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I am in the market for a spotter.  Requirements are bak4, multi coated/full multicoat, 60mm obj, range 15x-45x, or 20x-60x,  Any and all responses will be welcome.  I want the best quality glass for the best value please.

Edited by rimfireman
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2007 at 23:42
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Anyone??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2007 at 00:07
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A good quality/value is the Bushnell Elite 15-45x60mm, for the price it's hard to beat, and it has PC-3 and Rainguard coatings. I've been really happy with mine over the years.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2007 at 02:00
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Well!!!! You need to decide how much money you wish to spend!!!! If $600 to $700 is in your price range, then go with the Bushnell Elite!!!.... However, I prefer to save money, even though I can afford alot more!.......If your use is 300 yards or less for spotting bullet holes, my suggestion would be to carefully look at the Vortex and the Alpen.....Both have fully coated lenses, Bak4 prisms, waterproof, shock proof, lifetime warrantys and available with cases and tripods!........I personally have the 20-60x80 Alpen w/ the angled eye piece and comes with a built in slide out sun shade for the objective lense. With tripod and nylon carry case, it is $392..........I use the orange splatter targets, which are easier to see the bullet holes rather than, black paper targets. I can easily see the holes at 200 yards! Better to buy the splatter targets, rather than, buy a more expensive spotter! Save your money and change the target background!!!!! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2007 at 02:14
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I forgot to mention in my last post that Vortex makes the 20-60x60mm in their Nomad line!!!! Same quality as their 80mm Skyline I mentioned above. Alpen`s in their 60mm, is only available in a 15-45x. Alpen`s 20-60x is only available with the 80mm objective! These two scopes are identical in quality, will do an excellent job and in my view, they are the two best spotters on the market for the money! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2007 at 11:08
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

If $600 to $700 is in your price range, then go with the Bushnell Elite!!!....
 

 

Actually the 15-45x60 Elite mentioned sells for right around $350.  For the amount of money you mentioned you can get the 20-60x80 ED Elite, which is a much better scope and is definately worth the money. 

 

 

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

However, I prefer to save money, even though I can afford alot more!.......

 

O.K., whatever.

 

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

I personally have the 20-60x80 Alpen w/ the angled eye piece and comes with a built in slide out sun shade for the objective lense. With tripod and nylon carry case, it is $392

 

The Alpen only uses Bak7 prisms which is a definate disapointment considering its price.  For $40 less you can get the aforementioned 15-45x60 Bushnell Elite which uses fully-multicoated, phase-corrected Bak4 prisms and is smaller, lighter, and generally better made.

 

For that matter you could save even more with the Bushnell Legend (in either 20-60x60 or 20-60x80 formats) or the Stokes Sandpiper (15-45x65), either of which would probably be a better choice than the Alpen. So too, there is the Vortex Skyline or Nomad which you have already mentioned.  

 

Originally posted by  Big Squeeze  Big Squeeze wrote:

Better to buy the splatter targets, rather than, buy a more expensive spotter! Save your money and change the target background!!!!! 

 

Since for me, range work is not the exclusive (or even the primary) venue for spotting scope usage, I simply cannot disagree with this statement any stronger.  A good scope will allow you to see things simply not visible by any other means.  This can save you from literally miles of walking and a lot of wear and tear from your shoe leather by allowing you to measure up the relative worthiness of getting closer to whatever has caught your interest.

 

Don't take out a new mortgage to buy a spotting scope but, definately try to stretch your budget and buy the best you can reasonably afford.

 

 

Addendum: I just saw in another post (and confirmed on the Alpen website) that Alpen has upgraded most of their spotting scopes to Bak4 prisms and have given full-multi coatings to their 80mm scope (though all the others retain only multi-coatings.)  This will help things immensely though, even with the 80mm scope (and especially with any of the smaller units,) I would still find myself leaning toward the Bushnell or Vortex offerings. 



Edited by lucznik
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2007 at 17:56
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Some more good scope bargains are the Pentax PF65 ED w/ XW-14, or a Nikon Fieldscope III ED   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2007 at 18:20
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To: Lucznik.....................I did notice your addendum at the bottom of your post confirming the upgrades Alpen did for `07. That`s why I purchased the 20-60x80! My spotting scope use will not exceed 300 yards and will be used for RANGE work only! I do not use a spotter in the field when hunting. My powerful binocs and my rangefinder work fine!........The original post from "Rimfireman" mentioned "nothing" with regard to field use. If he had done so, my approach probably would have been somewhat different...............Of the many scopes I compared, including the Stokes Sandpiper, I did happen to look through a Bushnell Legend in 20-60x80 beforehand. However, I prefer the angled eyepiece. Not available in the Legend!!!! With Alpen`s new upgrades, ( 80 MM ONLY), there is no difference in optical clarity and quality between it, the Legend or the Vortex, unless a higher end ED is used,,,,, which I don`t need! All three are priced in the same ballpark as well!......Since I live in So. Calif. (headquarters for Alpen) and should I ever have a warranty issue, I can simply take that scope and exchange it for a new one on the same day, which was, as a matter of fact, confirmed by Alpen!!! No shipping back and forth! Just an easy 18 mile one way drive and about one hour or so of time!!.........Convenient would you say? Perhaps a little thought given too?.............And, if I ever did choose to take my Alpen into the field for hunting purposes, I wouldn`t exactly,, bet against me,, from filling my tags!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2007 at 20:22
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WOW  tons of info to check out.  I had considered alpen but was unsure of quality.  What about celestron??  Is that also a brand to consider??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2007 at 22:02
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I have not peered through the Celestron so I cannot comment either way. But nevertheless, you need to find out what that scope has to offer! Such as Bak4 prisms? Fully coated lenses or multi coated? Waterproof, shockproof? Eye relief is also important if you happen to wear glasses or target spot. How much eye relief is there? Will you be spotting at or beyond 200 yards? If so, my personal preference is an 80MM objective................Those are a few categories which are very important and features you should look for.......I don`t know what your price range is, which of course, will determine the quality of the scope you finally choose!....Do you want a straight eye piece or an angled one?.........Lot`s to consider!........Have fun...Big Squeeze! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2007 at 11:25
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The original post from "Rimfireman" mentioned "nothing" with regard to field use. 

This is true, but then again, it also mentioned nothing by way of 80mm scopes either.  In fact it was pretty specific about the need for a 60mm class scope - which generally implies the desire to carry the unit around, i.e. "field use."

 

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

With Alpen`s new upgrades, ( 80 MM ONLY), there is no difference in optical clarity and quality between it, the Legend or the Vortex, unless a higher end ED is used... All three are priced in the same ballpark as well!
 

Since Rimfireman has yet to offer any idea of his budget, I'll refrain from suggesting that the Alpen is priced in the "same ballpark" as others.  After all, $50 might be a big deal to him and then again, it might not. I have not done an exhaustive comparison of the scopes in question (in fact, I've never seen an 80mm Alpen scope though the smaller Alpens I've looked at have not impressed me) and so I don't know if there are any optical differences between them (though I do have my suspicions.) 

 

I will however offer this chart showing what I would consider to be the basic competitors to the Alpen and their typical prices (which I have, of course rounded.) Actual prices at your chosen retailer may vary some from this chart.

 

1 Bushnell Legend 15-45x60  $ 250.00
2 Leupold Sequoia 15-45x60  $ 280.00
3 Stokes Sandpiper 15-45x65  $ 300.00
4 Bushnell Legend 20-60x80  $ 330.00
5 Vortex Nomad 20-60x60  $ 340.00
6 Bushnell Elite 15-45x60  $ 350.00
Pentax 20-50x63  $ 350.00

What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2007 at 17:44
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To: Lucznik..........True! There was no mention originally about an 80MM. However, the words "field use" were not specified! The assumption on my part was that his scope would be for range use!........He was open to a 20-60x, which was the variable I purchased in the Alpen to suite my particular needs. I offered my opinion based on my experience at the range with my Alpen and that I prefered an 80MM objective, mainly due to it`s upgraded features for this year!....I did mention in a previous post about the 60MM objective Vortex Nomad as well...............And yes, my main reason for purchasing the Alpen was for warranty convenience, BUT NOT at the sacrifice of quality, which the latter, I should have mentioned earlier!........Had the Alpen been an inferior scope in any way, it wouldn`t have mattered if the showroom was across the street; I would have sent it back! QUALITY is always the first consideration, regardless of the point of origin......I looked through many scopes as well, including some ED`s in 15x45`s with smaller objectives than 80MM. Since most of my range work will be at 200 yards max. and on rare occasion at 300 yards, I did not see a worthwhile difference at those distances, in so much as, not being able to view bullet holes. Beyond 300 yards however, I would have probably considered a different scope!....Everyone`s needs, budgets and eyeballs are different. The Alpen in 80MM works beautifully for my particular use and I would not hesitate in recommending that scope, at the $400 price point, to those who have similiar uses.....Hope you get the opportunity to look through one soon!  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2007 at 20:24
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Sorry about all the confusion, I purposely left out a price range because I wanted more options.  I am open to  under 300 preferably unless something is really worth a little more.  I came across an competitor denali, bak4, FMC broadband coatings, tripod, clear see thru case, and photo adapter.  Sounds too good to be true as it is only 199.00 free ship.  Although, the elite and browning sound good also...I am in no hurry, I like to be sure of my decisions and make a good one that I won't regret.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2007 at 12:07
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I have no experience with the EO Denali so; sorry, I can't really help you there.  I have seen it for sale for $150 though so; I would suggest you don't jump on that $200 bandwagen before doing a thorough search.

 

There is not an overwhelming selection of quality scopes in the under $300 range though, there are a few.  I certainly think that if at all possible stretching your budget an extra $50 - $75 and picking up either the 15-45x60 Bushnell Elite or the 15-45x65 ED Browning spotting scope would prove to be a much more satisfying purchase in the long run.

 

Having said that, I realize that stretching a budget is not always an option - especially if you are already stretching to reach the $300 mark.  Some other options that you might want to look at that specifically fall in your stated price range would be:

  • Bushnell Trophy 25-50x50, $165 (No less an optics "authority" than John Barsness has written that this is a very good beginner's scope.)
  • Vortex Impact 25-75x70, $180  (This is a Catadioptric Scope, which is quite different than traditional prismatic scopes.  You can find a few different threads here describing them and their pros/cons. Definately worth a look.)
  • Bushnell Trophy 20-60x65, $190 (See comment for 25-50x50 model above.)
  • Burris Landmark 15-45x60, $190
  • Kowa TS500  20-40x50, $200  (Kowa has a good reputation for optics, especially within the competition shooters crowd. This scope is not sealed against the weather but, the optics are said to be quite good.)
  • Bushnell Discoverer 15-60x60, $210  (While heavy and not waterproof, this scope does have the capacity to connect directly to a DSLR scope allowing for fairly effortless digiscoping options.)
  • Burris Landmark 20-60x80, $230
  • Bushnell Legend 20-60x60, $250  (A little bigger and a bit heavier than Bushnell's 15-45x60 Elite spotting scope but, its porro prism design will allow for it to provide equal if not superior optical performance at a lower cost.)
  • Nikon Sky & Earth 15-45x60, $250  (This is a discontinued model but, there are alot still available in the marketplace.  It is a very good scope though, it is only water resistant rather than fully waterproof.)
  • Leupold Gold Ring 10-20x40, $300  (This is definately a specialty scope and is not ideal for every situation but, if size and weight are of paramount concern, this is a real beauty.)
  • Leupold Sequoia 15-45x60, $280 (This seems to be a "love it" or "hate it" scope as I've read reviews claiming each of these things but, never anything more "in the middle.")
  • Stokes Sandpiper, 15-45x65, $300 (By all accounts this is a truly great scope for the money.  I have even heard it compared favorably to the Swarovski HD at low powers. There are also some great deals available for this scope right now.)

Again, the products highlighted in green are the scopes that would be at the top of my list for consideration.

 

 

 

 

 

 



Edited by lucznik
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2007 at 20:38
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Thanks for so much info   Are there any pros/cons regarding the straight through (like the burris signature)as opposed to the porro prism design.  After a lot of looking, I am actually leaning toward a bigger obj...I had originally set on 60, but have seen decent prices for quality 65 and 80's. This is tough too  I know the quality of the elite as I just purchased a 4200 6-24 for my cz.  But I also have a set of burris binos as well as nikon too.  Both have great glass!!  I appreciate all your ideas and I guarantee I will check them all out and any others I may get...you seem to know your spotters and please stay tuned for any questions please.

Edited by rimfireman
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2007 at 19:01
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Originally posted by lucznik lucznik wrote:

  I certainly think that if at all possible stretching your budget an extra $50 - $75 and picking up either the 15-45x60 Bushnell Elite or the 15-45x65 ED Browning spotting scope would prove to be a much more satisfying purchase in the long run.

 

 

 

lucznik, have you compared these two spotters? I have the Elite and know of a great deal on a Browning 15-45x65 ED, I may buy it if it's better than my 15-45x60 Elite.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2007 at 20:11
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Originally posted by rimfireman rimfireman wrote:

Are there any pros/cons regarding the straight through (like the burris signature)as opposed to the porro prism design[?]

 

Yes.  Most of the same optical advantages that exist for porro prism binoculars as compared to roof prism binoculars also exist for spotting scopes.  Porro prism units are easier and cheaper to manufacture.  Roof prism optics, because of the very steep angles at which the light is refracted, require "phase-correction" coatings to help bring all of the colors of light back in line.  The simpler, easier, and fewer 90 degree angles utilized by porro prism optics do not create this "phase" problem and so require no additional coatings to correct it. This is one reason why even most of the "Alpha" spotting scopes utilize a porro prism design. This also means that porro prism spotting scopes will generally cost less than equal quality roof prism spotters.  Of course, the dog-leg design of the porro prism means that they will be larger, bulkier, and usually heavier than comparable roof prism spotters but, since spotters only have one optical barrel, this isn't as pronounced an issue as it is with binoculars.

 

Increased depth of field is the one area that porro prisms show an advantage over roof prisms in binoculars but not in spotting scopes.  This is because the ability to see depth requires the use of two eyes and (of course) when looking through a spotting scope you only use one.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2007 at 20:23
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Originally posted by Spitzer Spitzer wrote:

lucznik, have you compared these two spotters? I have the Elite and know of a great deal on a Browning 15-45x65 ED, I may buy it if it's better than my 15-45x60 Elite.

 

No, I have not.  I have never actually handled the Browning spotting scope.  I included it in my list because it is manufactured by a trusted and experienced optics company (Bushnell) and because it both uses ED glass and is priced (generally) around $370.  So, for a person who is looking for an under-$400 spotting scope, this makes it worthy of at least careful consideration.  Based on what I have read about the Browning, my suspicion is that the optics will prove to be somewhat better than the Elite but perhaps not to a super-large degree.  I have some doubts as to whether or not a hunter would see much difference between the two (the Elite does have a pretty stellar reputation for good optics) or more importantly, if that difference would be worth the extra bulk and weight of the Browning (it weighs a full 48 oz.) Where it would likely show significant advantages is if the owner is planning on using the scope for digiscoping activities. Here the ED glass would almost surely allow for substantially better pictures.

 

Browning branded optics have almost no presence in the market (at least not in my neck of the woods) which will mean that a prospective buyer will likely have to make their purchase online and "sight-unseen."  For this reason I would suggest that the buyer try to make his purchase with a dealer that offers a solid, no-questions-asked return policy.



Edited by lucznik
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2007 at 09:43
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I can get that Browning ED Package for $265cdn. Ah, maybe, I'll just save up for the Pentax pf65 ed w/ xw14 e.p.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2007 at 21:33
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what about eye relief? how important is it??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2007 at 22:32
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Originally posted by Spitzer Spitzer wrote:

...maybe, I'll just save up for the Pentax pf65 ed w/ xw14 e.p.
If you can reasonably swing this, I would be willing to bet it would prove to be the better choice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/20/2007 at 22:34
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Originally posted by rimfireman rimfireman wrote:

what about eye relief? how important is it??

 

That depends largely on two issues:

 

1. Do you wear eyeglasses?  (And if so, what is your prescription?)

 

2. How important is it to you to be able to see the entire Field of View? 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2007 at 22:39
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choices are narrowed to the leupold sequoia, landmark, spacemaster, and legend, and sky and earth kit if I can find it....what ya think now???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/23/2007 at 22:56
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Ultimately you need to make that decision and not be overly swayed by internet chat.  If at all possible, find a store where you can look at these and compare them yourself so that you are making the best decision for you.

 

However, since you've asked:

  • I do not like Burris optics so; the Landmark would be out.
  • The Spacemaster is an older (albeit very well recieved) design.  I would think newer models would likely provide better performance. It would not be my first choice.
  • The Sequoia tends to get either glowing or flaming reviews.  This makes me suspect that there is a lot of sample variation going on and would make me nervous about buying one.
  • The Sky & Earth kit is still available, usually for about $250.  It is only weather resistant rather than waterproof which could prove a problem if you use your spotting scope much in inclement weather. It does however, have very good optics.
  • The Legend is new enough that I haven't seen one yet.  It is likely as good or better than the Spacemaster and possibly even better than the Nikon.  It is also waterproof and even includes such things as Bushnell's RainGaurd which is a potential plus (assuming you believe such coatings actually work.)

In short, from the options on your list, I would tend to lean toward either the Nikon or the Bushnell Legend.

 

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  back again!! what of the simmons wilderness?? 20-60x77  the kit here is 219.99   fmc, bak4  sounds pretty good, anyone  know anything about simmons??  I have a couple of scopes that are pretty nice...Also we are still leaning toward the sequoia 20-60x80 kit, but it is kinda costly...anyone out there think it is worth it??
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