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Spec out a scope for me, based on these goals

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 11:30
teddy12b View Drop Down
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I've been shooting long range for a couple of years now and I think I'm getting ready to take the next step into more expensive optics.  Currently I'm using a SWFA SS10X with side focus for shooting out to 1,000 yards.  The problem is, while I know a lot about my rifle and handloads, I'm not that much of a gear junkie when it comes to the scopes.  I figured I'd just be better to come here and mention all the things I want to be able to do with my rifle and then you guys could spec out a make and model that would suit me.
 
I have no complaints about the glass quality of my SWFA 10X, but I'd like to have more power to see out farther.  It's not needed, but I want it because I want to be able to see the bullet splashes when I miss so I can make a correction.
 
So here's what I want:
  - High power range, prefereably over 20X
  - A lower power range that would allow me to hunt with this same scope (may not be possible) prefereably 4x but I can live with the 6x lowest power if I had to.
  - I need a lot of elevation adjustment, preferably 80 or more.  I want my ammo to limit my effective range, not my scope.
  - I want clarity in the glass.  Now I'm not a delicate flower that needs the worlds greatest glass, but I don't want something that's going to be blurry and all haizey at the max power.  I want the max power to still be usable. 
  - After watching magpuls video on long range precision shooting I wouldn't mind a horus reticle or something similar like the Vortex HS XLR reticle coming out this fall.
  - I'm not in special forces and I'm not going to drag this scope through mud, toss it off a cliff, use it to open a can of beer and then still expect it to have held it's zero, but I do want a scope that's built strong.
  - I don't think I need an illuminated scope but if it's on there I guess it'll just have to look cool while I don't use it. 
  - I don't need something that's built for benchrest competition, but I'd like to know that I could try it out if I wanted to.
  - Most importantly, I'd like to keep the scope under $1,500.  I know S&B makes a heck of a scope, but I don't think I need anything that awesome.  I'm just shooting steel plates to put a smile on my face folks.
 
What do you all say?  Feel free to let me know your thoughts on what I'm asking about and don't hold back thinking you might offend me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 12:01
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
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This would fit the bill for your needs and then some.
Glass is out right amazing, adjustment is good, durability is out standing.
I have shot 1,200 yards using the 20x but with heat mirage it was hard to use the 20x and I had to back down to 16x.


http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-5-20x50-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P51653.aspx


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 13:00
teddy12b View Drop Down
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My only real gripe with that scope is that I'd rather be 24x or more on the high end of the scope, and I'd have to convert my mind over from mil/moa to mil/mil.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 13:16
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
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Originally posted by teddy12b teddy12b wrote:

My only real gripe with that scope is that I'd rather be 24x or more on the high end of the scope, and I'd have to convert my mind over from mil/moa to mil/mil.
To me MIL/MIL is much easier and worth taking the time to switch over to. Miss 1 mil to the left adjust 1 Mil to the right, one of my favrotie things to do when target shooting. A good quality optic at 20x will out perform a sub-par optic at 24x. You can not and will not be able to beat that scope for under $1,500 for what you are wanting to do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 13:23
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
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I used to be in your same boat and I switched to a Mil/Mil finally and I love it and won't ever go back.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 13:45
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

I used to be in your same boat and I switched to a Mil/Mil finally and I love it and won't ever go back.

I agree.

teddy12b-
Have you ever used a scope with 20x(+) magnification? If you haven't, you might ask to peer through one at the range.
They can give you a really twitchy view when any level of mirage is present.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 13:52
teddy12b View Drop Down
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I have looked through a 24x scope, but not any "real" quality ones.  I had a 6-18x buckmaster once that was a pretty good choice for me at the time and I've also used a cheapo 6-24x tasco on a 22mag.  I understand how jittery the scopes can be at the highest ranges, but I want the ability to go higher power, not saying I'm going to shoot everything at 24x, but I want to be able to max out when shooting at 1000 to see the dirt kick up since I kinda suck at that distance.  Big Grin  Sure makes the follow up shots easier to adjust for. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 14:17
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The SS 5-20 @ 20x with the quality of glass it has you will not have any issues with doing this. I personally can vouch for this exact scope as can BigDaddy as we have both shot long distances with it. As I am sure many others have. The only comparable scope around that price with the features you want is the Vortex PST 6-24 and the SS has better glass and will out perform the PST set on 24x while the SS is set at 20x.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 14:33
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Have you looked at the new Bushnell 3.5-21 HDMR it has hd Glass and your choice of mildot or horus style reticle at about $1300 I think this sounds like a perfect match and it's not cheap but wont breack the bank either oh yeah 89MOA.  http://swfa.com/Bushnell-35-21x50-Elite-Tactical-34mm-Rifle-Scope-P51675.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 14:42
teddy12b View Drop Down
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Actually I should have mentioned that the Bushnell 3.5-21 seems like that mystical perfect scope that we all seem to chase.  I really like the 3.5 lower power setting as it's something I could use hunting in low light conditions.  I have a black bear hunting habit and it'd be awesome to be able to use the same scope for everything from long range to up close in the woods hunting.  I certainly wish the HDMR went just a little higher on the upper end of the power, but if it's good glass like SWFA 5-20 I guess it shouldn't matter so much.  What makes me hesitate with that scope is that it hasn't been out long and it's hard to find reviews on it.  My problem is still the same one I've always had though.  I'm not enough of a scope buff to really be able to put the screws to a scope and see how it really compares to any other scope. 
 
What do you guys think of that HDMR?  It's got the power settings as close as I could ever really hope for, and the elevation adjustments are there as well except I don't really need them using the mil holds.  I really like the idea of eliminating a variable of turret quality from the long range equation.  Then again though, I don't know if this new scope is worth the $$ or not especially when you start getting into the nightforce price range of scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 14:48
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The Bushnell has not gotten great reviews on Sniper Central and Sniper's Hide, here is a review of the Bushnell on Sniper Central:

http://www.snipercentral.com/bushdmr.phtml

The Super Sniper has gotten better reviews and is backed by SWFA, who has 100 times better customer service than Bushnell will ever have.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 14:51
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Originally posted by cpwomack cpwomack wrote:

The Super Sniper has gotten better reviews and is backed by SWFA, who has 100 times better customer service than Bushnell will ever have.
Thunbs Up x 1,000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 15:00
teddy12b View Drop Down
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The biggest hurdle I have with the HDMR/Horus is that it seems like it almost requires the use of the atrag software and pda.  Those are great tools, but they also add to the cost by another 5 or 6 hundred by the time it's all said and done.  It's not that I couldn't make notes on remember my holds from previous trips to the range, but the way the software works with that reticle it basically begs for the whole package to be together. 
 
I could get the new scope now and upgrade everything else later, but still.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 15:04
Chris Farris II View Drop Down
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Here is a very extensive review done be a very well respected member here which includes both the HDMR and the SS.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 21:22
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5-20x50 Super Sniper -  I have two wish I had two more.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 21:28
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I wouldn't trade mine for your first born!   LOL!   That 5-20 will be the last scope to sit on my remmy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 21:58
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Hate to send you any where else to look for a review. But there are several threads started at Snipers Hide dedicated to this particular scope. If you are willing to spend that much for an optic, I don't think you could go wrong.
 
Whenever I decide to pony up for a true long range build, this will get a long look. Maybe I'll be able to find a Demo B. I'm guessing not likely though, I think once  you have this on your gun it won't come off.
 
Good luck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 22:11
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I am really, really, really like mine as well! Teddy it is my opinion in this day of flame everything at the drop of a hat...Sometimes no news is good news. But here is another couple of reviews.
 And here is mine.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2012 at 23:23
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Originally posted by teddy12b teddy12b wrote:

I have looked through a 24x scope, but not any "real" quality ones.  I had a 6-18x buckmaster once that was a pretty good choice for me at the time and I've also used a cheapo 6-24x tasco on a 22mag.  I understand how jittery the scopes can be at the highest ranges, but I want the ability to go higher power, not saying I'm going to shoot everything at 24x, but I want to be able to max out when shooting at 1000 to see the dirt kick up since I kinda suck at that distance.  Big Grin  Sure makes the follow up shots easier to adjust for. 


You are talking about lower end scopes here. I think you would be amazed at how much better glass vs more magnification will allow you to see things. Especially at longer ranges. That is where better glass really comes into play. More magnification with lesser glass just magnifies the imperfections in the glass. Case in point I have a Leupold VXIII 6.5-20 which was one of my first scopes. But I can see much better at long range with my Swaro 3-10. I would really take a long hard look at the SS 5-20. Also notice the reoccurring theme here? That is what everyone is recommending.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 13:48
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by teddy12b teddy12b wrote:

I have looked through a 24x scope, but not any "real" quality ones.  I had a 6-18x buckmaster once that was a pretty good choice for me at the time and I've also used a cheapo 6-24x tasco on a 22mag.  I understand how jittery the scopes can be at the highest ranges, but I want the ability to go higher power, not saying I'm going to shoot everything at 24x, but I want to be able to max out when shooting at 1000 to see the dirt kick up since I kinda suck at that distance.  Big Grin  Sure makes the follow up shots easier to adjust for. 


You are talking about lower end scopes here. I think you would be amazed at how much better glass vs more magnification will allow you to see things. Especially at longer ranges. That is where better glass really comes into play. More magnification with lesser glass just magnifies the imperfections in the glass. Case in point I have a Leupold VXIII 6.5-20 which was one of my first scopes. But I can see much better at long range with my Swaro 3-10. I would really take a long hard look at the SS 5-20. Also notice the reoccurring theme here? That is what everyone is recommending.
 
Along that note I should have mentioned that I had a bushnell 4200 6-24's and I was actually pretty happy at the clarity of the scope at the higher powers.  It was a short lived relationship and I barely remember even owning it because I sold it so quickly after the elevation knob bottomed out on me and I wasn't even close to the 1000 yard target yet with a 20 moa rail on the thing.  Clarity wise though for a reference to for those more knowledgable than I am I thought that scope was acceptable for clarity at all powers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 13:56
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If the Bushnell 4200 was good enough glass at 24x I feel extremely confident in telling you that the SS at 20x will do just as good if not better. BigDaddy has also so used both so I am sure he can chime in on the glass of the SS 5-20 being superior to the Bushnell.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 15:12
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

5-20x50 Super Sniper -  I have two wish I had two more.
 
 
Man, that's a nice looking rifle!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 15:30
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Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

If the Bushnell 4200 was good enough glass at 24x I feel extremely confident in telling you that the SS at 20x will do just as good if not better. BigDaddy has also so used both so I am sure he can chime in on the glass of the SS 5-20 being superior to the Bushnell.


yeah, it is night and day. The crispness of the colors and the target in the heavy mirage is really nice, but hard to describe. even thru other top end scope the SS truly stands out. I still have to add 2 to finish out my collection of Long range rifle and they will both be sporting the sexy 5x20 SS's. The tracking is dead on also. great feeling elevation knobs. The scope has the feel of a well thought out tool rather than the feel of a toy.

If your ever close to Atlanta Georgia feel free to stop in and play with it. We can go and shoot a few rounds at longer ranges so you can see. I promise if and when you buy a SS 5x20 you will never have buyers remorse on it.







 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 15:40
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 if I'm right on the MOA/MILl you just take your MOA and divide by 3.44 will give your mil.
say 1000shot with a .338cal 300gr Berger @ 2650 ( I think)  calls for
27.2MOA divide 3.44 = 7.9 mils. dial up, read wind, hit target. pretty simple.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2012 at 15:51
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Originally posted by Bigdaddy0381 Bigdaddy0381 wrote:


say 1000shot with a .338cal 300gr Berger @ 2650 ( I think)  calls for
27.2MOA divide 3.44 = 7.9 mils. dial up, read wind, hit target. pretty simple.



Big Grin  Just a tad bit optimistic aren't we??
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