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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 00:50
Gil P. View Drop Down
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My best group used 43.4 grains of IMR 4895. My groups are inconsistent though. Im sure it is just due to my lack of skill but im going to experiment with some Federal 210M primers and see if that is better. I will also now be deburring the flashole and see if this combination helps shrink my groups. I'll post those results when I get to test them.

These shots were taken using a bipod and rear bag from a bench at 125 yards. The rifle is a Remington 700 AAC-SD with a Bell and Carlson M40 stock, Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44SF and Talley lightweight two piece rings.

I hope these pictures work.





Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 03:52
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I like, rather my rifle likes CCI BR2 primers. Cheap component to change to see if it will group better. 

I too use IMR 4895 with my .308 every now and again, but always go back to "Var-gay" for the best accuracy. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 08:04
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I'd double check to see if your stock and barrel are making any contact when loaded on the bipod.  I know my sps tac grouped about like this until I bedded a steel rod into the forend to stiffen it up. After bedding I was gettign considerably better groups.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 08:58
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New rifle? May need to put some rounds through it before it shines. My savage took a 100 rounds or so with a couple good cleanings before it tightened up. Seems like the rifle improves every time i take it out. Maybe my trigger skills are getting better? My suggestion would be doing some research on a good load that has worked well for similar rifle platforms then load up a 100 rounds or so and shoot them all. Get really comfortable with the gun before working up a load.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 09:48
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I like, rather my rifle likes CCI BR2 primers. Cheap component to change to see if it will group better. 

I too use IMR 4895 with my .308 every now and again, but always go back to "Var-gay" for the best accuracy. 


Im going to try changing my primer over to Federal 210M how much better does Varget work for you? It is locally available for me so it could definitely be worth a try.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 09:55
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I'm not CT but Varget has always performed considerably better for me than other powders in my 308.  Its not temp sensitive and pretty easy to work with.  Right now I'm using 50gr of varget with a 130gr TTSX in my 308 and getting one hole groups.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 09:56
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

I'd double check to see if your stock and barrel are making any contact when loaded on the bipod.  I know my sps tac grouped about like this until I bedded a steel rod into the forend to stiffen it up. After bedding I was gettign considerably better groups.


The barrel was touching the forend until I changed my stock to the B&C. I think my groups may have something to do with my components (and my own error). I have some interesting pictures of a 10 or 11 shot pressure test (each round varied .5 grains) on a target and almost all of them landed in the bullseye. They were shot at the same range (125 yards), I cant seem to duplicate that. Maybe it was a fluke? I also have some pictures of a ladder test I did about 40 rounds ago. The ladder test was done at about 340 yards. The bullet holes on the 340 yard target are numbered starting at 39.2 and going up to 43.4.








Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 09:58
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jselsor jselsor wrote:

New rifle? May need to put some rounds through it before it shines. My savage took a 100 rounds or so with a couple good cleanings before it tightened up. Seems like the rifle improves every time i take it out. Maybe my trigger skills are getting better? My suggestion would be doing some research on a good load that has worked well for similar rifle platforms then load up a 100 rounds or so and shoot them all. Get really comfortable with the gun before working up a load.  


Will do, maybe all I need is practice! I'll give my rifle a good cleaning along with changing some of my round components and see how it works.

My rifle has 155 rounds in it so far.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 10:14
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

I'm not CT but Varget has always performed considerably better for me than other powders in my 308.  Its not temp sensitive and pretty easy to work with.  Right now I'm using 50gr of varget with a 130gr TTSX in my 308 and getting one hole groups.


Lots of folks recommend Varget, I think I ought to give it a try when ive used all of my IMR 4895.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 11:08
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Varget is a good powder that can be used in a lot of calibers.  I use it in .223, .308, .243, 223 wssm.

Down side to Varget is it can vary quite a bit from lot to lot.  Enough so that you should run your loads through a chrono and adjust your loads every time you change.  I bought several 8lb jugs and mixed them all together so I would have a whole bunch of the same lot so I would not have to deal with that so often. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 11:36
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Varget is a good powder that can be used in a lot of calibers.  I use it in .223, .308, .243, 223 wssm.

Down side to Varget is it can vary quite a bit from lot to lot.  Enough so that you should run your loads through a chrono and adjust your loads every time you change.  I bought several 8lb jugs and mixed them all together so I would have a whole bunch of the same lot so I would not have to deal with that so often. 


Add to that list 7mm-08, 9.3x62mm, 6.8SPC and 376 Steyr.  Good call on mixing the lots.  I do that with my 1lb cans.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 12:52
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During load development, I would recommend that you use a rest instead of a bipod. Too many variables can be placed on a bipod that can affect accuracy. Inconsistant load pressure, inconsistant bipod position from shot to shot, feet twisting, rifle canting, etc..
 
I've had better results with Win. 748 than with Varget. Not saying it's better for you. 748 meters very well, since it is a ball powder instead of an extruded powder. The down side is, it's dirty. I hope to get a chance to try some CFE223 and TAC in the future. They are both ball powders too, but are supposed to be much cleaner.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 14:55
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

I'd double check to see if your stock and barrel are making any contact when loaded on the bipod.  I know my sps tac grouped about like this until I bedded a steel rod into the forend to stiffen it up. After bedding I was getting considerably better groups.
 
Similar problem with mine.  Shot sub-MOA in a lead sled but groups were inconsistent when shooting off of a bipod.  Original Hogue ghillie stock was a reputation for this issue based on the experiences of others.
 
Mine is now pillar and glass bedded in a Manner's T3 stock and consistently shoots .6 MOA groups with Federal GMM 168 and 175gr ammo off of the bipod.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 17:33
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Varget is a good powder that can be used in a lot of calibers.  I use it in .223, .308, .243, 223 wssm.

Down side to Varget is it can vary quite a bit from lot to lot.  Enough so that you should run your loads through a chrono and adjust your loads every time you change.  I bought several 8lb jugs and mixed them all together so I would have a whole bunch of the same lot so I would not have to deal with that so often. 


How temperature sensitive is Vihtavouri N150? Another member of this forum said that this brand of powder has a reputation for being very consistent from lot to lot. I would hate to have to adjust my load each time I bought some Varget.

Mixing them is a good idea though; I am currently only reloading for one caliber (308).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 17:36
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

During load development, I would recommend that you use a rest instead of a bipod. Too many variables can be placed on a bipod that can affect accuracy. Inconsistant load pressure, inconsistant bipod position from shot to shot, feet twisting, rifle canting, etc..
 
I've had better results with Win. 748 than with Varget. Not saying it's better for you. 748 meters very well, since it is a ball powder instead of an extruded powder. The down side is, it's dirty. I hope to get a chance to try some CFE223 and TAC in the future. They are both ball powders too, but are supposed to be much cleaner.


Could you recommend a good, simple rest? The bipod may be causing some problems especially since I cant preload the legs on the bench.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 17:37
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I don't know on the N150.  Never used it or really read anything about it.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2012 at 17:57
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How temperature sensitive is Vihtavouri N150? Another member of this forum said that this brand of powder has a reputation for being very consistent from lot to lot. I would hate to have to adjust my load each time I bought some Varget.

Mixing them is a good idea though; I am currently only reloading for one caliber (308).
[/QUOTE]

 Your gonna hear lots of things from different guys but bar non varget is the most user friendly, consistent powder for the 308. It meters just fine as well. Its not going anywhere any time soon cuz they sell the snot out of it and for good reasonSmile Some of the MOST accurate sniper loads are developed with V................
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 10:08
Gil P. View Drop Down
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I really wish I had pictures but when this rifle was brand new I took it to the range and was getting 3 shot groups right around a half inch consistently. That was with 7.62x51 Federal GMM 175gr.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 10:09
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I use a Caldwell rest, nothing fancy. It's metal and not plastic. I filled the leather bag that the forearm rest on with used sandblasting sand, because it's very fine, packs well, but most of all cheap (free). Just reposition the rifle to the same place on the rest, after each shot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2012 at 00:32
Gil P. View Drop Down
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I bought some VihtaVuori N550 powder today, i'll load it up and see how it shoots. I'm also going to change the primers on the IMR 4895 and see if there is any improvement. I'll post the results when I can.

Im kind of dreading doing another ladder test for the N550. Last time I had to keep walking 350 yards to my target and back when I thought I was gonna lose track of the bullet holes. I should just color the ends of the bullets. I read an article about someone who did that so he didnt have to keep walking back and forth. Hope it works.

Beltfed,

You mean the Caldwell Rock front shooting rest?


Edited by Gil P. - July/14/2012 at 00:52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2012 at 10:23
BeltFed View Drop Down
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You mean the Caldwell Rock front shooting rest?

Something like that.
 
 
Gil P, do you have a good or decent spotting scope? It could save on those 700yd walks.
 
I also set up multiple targets, when I'm developing loads, so I can concentrate on shooting.
 
Here's an example
With a good scope, you can use each square as a aiming point at 300yds.
Dang pic, won't download from my fileLoco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2012 at 16:55
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Beltfed said:
"Gil P, do you have a good or decent spotting scope? It could save on those 700yd walks."

I probably would have never had a spotting scope if it weren't for that.
But, if I'd never gotten a spotter, maybe my waist would be smaller.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2012 at 17:18
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

You mean the Caldwell Rock front shooting rest?

Something like that.
 
 
Gil P, do you have a good or decent spotting scope? It could save on those 700yd walks.
 
I also set up multiple targets, when I'm developing loads, so I can concentrate on shooting.
 
Here's an example
With a good scope, you can use each square as a aiming point at 300yds.
Dang pic, won't download from my fileLoco

Beltfed,

I dont have a spotting scope, I can see the bullet holes with my riflescope though, (most of the time) and not well enough to keep track without walking up to my target.

Do you shoot groups with each different load? I guess your picture didnt work but is that what you were trying to show me?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2012 at 17:22
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Beltfed said:
"Gil P, do you have a good or decent spotting scope? It could save on those 700yd walks."

I probably would have never had a spotting scope if it weren't for that.
But, if I'd never gotten a spotter, maybe my waist would be smaller.


Yeah but then you would have to stop shooting, thats crazy talk in my book! It is annoying though, it makes working up loads take a LONG time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/17/2012 at 00:10
Gil P. View Drop Down
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This is another load test using IMR 4895. This time I switched the primers and reduced the powder charge as well as seating the bullet further in (COAL 2.787 compared to 2.800). I got much better results this time. It was windy but I still managed some good groups. I incorrectly wrote 34.3 grains for the second target on the first page. It was 43.4 grains of IMR 4895. All of these are 5 shot groups except for the work up target (very first one) that one is a 10 shot group and the second one that says "4 shots 1, primer failed to fire" I actually forgot to put powder in the case and thought it was a misfire Loco. This is exactly the same load that I was getting such poor accuracy with earlier, as you can see it still does not work.

The next group was my best if you delete the possible flyer or pull. I think I may get it to tighten up a little more if I change the primer to the Federal 210M. I was comparing the two to see if a bullet seating depth change and a decrease in powder would improve accuracy and it sure as heck did!

While the last two targets on the seconds page are pretty good groups, I will probably not use that load since the charge is so weak.

I'll hopefully be doing a ladder test on the VVN50 this weekend.






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