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So, Ye Optic Gods?

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silver View Drop Down
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    Posted: October/10/2007 at 20:44

 

 

So does the fact that the light in a store is a differant color than sunlight affect how we see things when trying thigs out in a store?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2007 at 20:48
yes it does! different types of light for one thing, and if its a big store its really hard to test low level lighting capabilities of a scope. for me its pretty hard to tell a cheapo scope from a very spendy one from inside a store.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2007 at 20:53
Well, have ya ever seen the inside of a store look like dusk?  Seriously, though, koshkin could answer that one I'm certain. Short answer is yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ND2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/10/2007 at 21:44
There is generally nothing more irrelevant than what can be "seen" or how something looks inside a store.  Everything looks good at mid-day also.  If you are not comparing at pre-dawn and/or evening, it doesn't matter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2007 at 12:04

In fact many el cheapo scopes actually have their coatings formulated to be optimum under florescent lighting, so that they look really good inside a store.

 

We plan to have an outside observation deck at our new store so that optics can be compared where they will be used.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2007 at 12:28

 

Chris,

 

That's a great idea about the observation deck.  I was at your place last August, comparing scopes, when I picked out my new Kahles.  I felt a little guilty about holding the door open so much, and letting out all of the cool air! 

 

How about some late evening beer, pretzel, scope comparison parties? 

 

Steve

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2007 at 12:45

So that was you that let all the air conditioning out!!

 

It won't take much twisting of my arm to arrange an evening beer, pretzel, optics party.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2007 at 18:32

Well I am going to go against the grain on this topic.  I am not so sure that some scope manufacturers really use coatings to make their scopes look better inside with flourescent lighting.  That seems like alot of trouble, when it may make their scopes appear inferior outdoors, where the owner may then want to return it.  Personally, optically clarity should stand for any scope indoors.  Now I agree with pyro6999, I do have difficulty evaluating a scope just by looking through them in the store.  But, then when I take them outdoors, my opinions rarely change.  Dusk and dawn are the real tests and how many of us have the chance to test them then.  I just know that both my future son in law and nephew have take deer and almost complete darkness with a Tasco World Class and Old Bushnell, neither had beed re-sighted in 7-10 years at about 125 yards, one shot and they dropped where they stood.  Sorry pyro6999, one was a 270 win. and the other a 30-06.  By the way, every time I go to my local gunshop and check scopes indoors, SWs, Millet, Bushnell, Nikon and Zeiss, the Zeiss always wins out (at least before I looked through the Trijicon).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/11/2007 at 21:23

I think the general point in the previous posts is the fact that the lighting inside a store doesn't duplicate natural diffuse light outdoors, so it's harder to distinguish the better optics from the mediocre optics.  The cheap scopes generally have very basic coatings that don't require much process time (and therefore added expense) along with lesser quality optical glass, less complex lens elements that cannot correct optical aberrations, and less precise grinding, polishing, and alignment of lenses.  Under perfect lighting or unidirectional light as in a store, without low angle light to create flare, it is more difficult to see their optical shortcomings as you would in the varying light and environmental conditions outdoors.  Cheap scopes still look decent inside the store because the artificial lighting in the store doesn't create flare or CA problems.  As for the cheap scopes maybe appearing inferior outdoors... well... they do.  That's why they are cheap scopes.  The average person who buys really cheap scopes do so precisely because they are cheap price-wise.  Therefore, they don't generally return it based on poor optics because many, if not most of the cheap scope customers aren't willing to part with the $ for more expensive scopes and aren't very critical of poor image quality because they don't have a basis of comparison.  In addition to more complex lens elements (doublets, triplets), better optical glass, precise lens grinding, polishing and alignment, and carefully tailored and controlled coating types and thicknesses, expensive high end scopes undergo a more time consuming, meticulous multicoating process using coatings that maximize light transmission in the blue spectrum, which is important for good low light performance. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2007 at 10:56
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

I think the general point in the previous posts is the fact that the lighting inside a store doesn't duplicate natural diffuse light outdoors, so it's harder to distinguish the better optics from the mediocre optics.  The cheap scopes generally have very basic coatings that don't require much process time (and therefore added expense) along with lesser quality optical glass, less complex lens elements that cannot correct optical aberrations, and less precise grinding, polishing, and alignment of lenses.  Under perfect lighting or unidirectional light as in a store, without low angle light to create flare, it is more difficult to see their optical shortcomings as you would in the varying light and environmental conditions outdoors.  Cheap scopes still look decent inside the store because the artificial lighting in the store doesn't create flare or CA problems.  As for the cheap scopes maybe appearing inferior outdoors... well... they do.  That's why they are cheap scopes.  The average person who buys really cheap scopes do so precisely because they are cheap price-wise.  Therefore, they don't generally return it based on poor optics because many, if not most of the cheap scope customers aren't willing to part with the $ for more expensive scopes and aren't very critical of poor image quality because they don't have a basis of comparison.  In addition to more complex lens elements (doublets, triplets), better optical glass, precise lens grinding, polishing and alignment, and carefully tailored and controlled coating types and thicknesses, expensive high end scopes undergo a more time consuming, meticulous multicoating process using coatings that maximize light transmission in the blue spectrum, which is important for good low light performance. 

Excellent points.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2007 at 11:22
RifleDude........ I don't know if any of the stuff you said is correct or not......... but you sure impressed the hell out of me!  Nice job.
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/12/2007 at 13:18
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

I think the general point in the previous posts is the fact that the lighting inside a store doesn't duplicate natural diffuse light outdoors, so it's harder to distinguish the better optics from the mediocre optics.  The cheap scopes generally have very basic coatings that don't require much process time (and therefore added expense) along with lesser quality optical glass, less complex lens elements that cannot correct optical aberrations, and less precise grinding, polishing, and alignment of lenses.  Under perfect lighting or unidirectional light as in a store, without low angle light to create flare, it is more difficult to see their optical shortcomings as you would in the varying light and environmental conditions outdoors.  Cheap scopes still look decent inside the store because the artificial lighting in the store doesn't create flare or CA problems.  As for the cheap scopes maybe appearing inferior outdoors... well... they do.  That's why they are cheap scopes.  The average person who buys really cheap scopes do so precisely because they are cheap price-wise.  Therefore, they don't generally return it based on poor optics because many, if not most of the cheap scope customers aren't willing to part with the $ for more expensive scopes and aren't very critical of poor image quality because they don't have a basis of comparison.  In addition to more complex lens elements (doublets, triplets), better optical glass, precise lens grinding, polishing and alignment, and carefully tailored and controlled coating types and thicknesses, expensive high end scopes undergo a more time consuming, meticulous multicoating process using coatings that maximize light transmission in the blue spectrum, which is important for good low light performance. 

Ted, you painted a good picture with this

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