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Small exit pupil of Burris 1.5-6x40 Signature.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/24/2009 at 11:22
boliodogs View Drop Down
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When you point a scope toward the ground you can see the exit pupil. I was looking at some scopes I not yet put on rifles. The Burris 1.5-6x40 Signature Select when set on 1.5 has a much smaller exit pupil than the Burris 1.75-5x32 Signature Select set on 1.75. The Monarch 1.5-4.5x20 set on 1.5 also has a larger exit pupil than the Burris 1.5-6x40 Signature Select even though it has a much smaller objective. This seems strange to me. Does this meen the 1.5-6x40 is not letting in as much light? Can anyone explain this to me? I saw this once before on an old Weaver 1-3x20 scope with a very small exit pupil about 15 years ago. I did not like that and I sold that scope just like I will probably sell this 1.5-6x40 scope. I feel more confident with the full size exit pupil. Thanks for any help with this as it makes no sense to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2009 at 14:37
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How do you have the scope when you are looking at them and judging their exit pupil size?  Maybe it is just the eye relief differences?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2009 at 14:44
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Exit pupil size is a mathematical formula.  Objective / magnification = exit pupil in mm.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2009 at 18:57
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You didn't check the exit-pupil before you bought it?  Why are you worried about it now?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2009 at 19:09
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I am holding the scopes with the front end pointed to the floor and looking down into the eyepiece from about 8 inches away with the scopes set on the lowest power. I can clearly see the exit pupil on each scope held side by side. I have checked these scopes for eye relief and they are pretty close, no more than .5 inches difference between the three with 1.75-5 having the most and the 1.5-6 burris and the 1.5-4.5 nikon both a little less. Trust me it is not the small ifference in eye relief that makes the 1.5-6x40 have smaller exit pupil than it should. I understand the math involved in the size of the exit pupil. It does not matter how I hold the scopes or move them around the 1.75-5 set on 1.75 and the 1.5-4.5 x20 nikon set on 1.5 both clearly have a larger exit pupil than the Burris 1.5-6x40 set on 1.5. By the math formula  the 1.5-6x40 should have a much larger exit pupil than the other two scopes because of the 1.5 power setting and the large 40mm objective. But it does not and that is the puzzle. Here are the Burris specs right out of their 2008 catalog. Signature Select 1.75-5x32 eye relief 3.8-4.5 exit pupil at 1.75 is 18. Burris Signature Select 1.5-6x40 eye relief 3.5-4 inches. Exit pupil at 1.5 is 27. I promise you as the owner of both of these scopes that 27 exit pupil on the 1.5-6x40 is B.S. Thank both of you for your help. I do not think this particular model 1.5-6x40 Burris S.S. is transmitting the light it should and mine will be sold. I love the Burris 1.75-5x32 Signature Select and I own 3 of them.     

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2009 at 23:14
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Tip69, I would say disgusted would better describe my feelings than " worry about it. " There is no store where I live that have high end Burris scopes I can look at. I  got the Burris 1.75-5x32 first and I loved it so I got the 1.5-6x40 at auction thinking it would also be an excellent scope. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect Burris to put out a high end scope that matches the catalog specs. If I could have seen the 1.5-6x40 first I would not have purchased it. I have ordered Bushnell, Zeiss, and Nikons that I never saw before and they all had the proper size exit pupil. This 1.5-6x40 does not and I tell this forum about it to perhaps give a prospective buyer of this scope a heads up.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 02:51
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Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

Exit pupil size is a mathematical formula.  Objective / magnification = exit pupil in mm.
 
Correct
Burris 1.75-5x32 Signature Select set on 1.75.   32 divided by 1.75 =18.2
Monarch 1.5-4.5x20 set on 1.5                            20 divided by 1.5 = 13.3
Burris 1.5-6x40                                                    40 divided by  1.5 =  26.6
The most the human eye can use is 7mm for a young man in good eye health with age that may decrease to 6mm or 5mm etc. anything more isnt useable.
 
The way you are testing is it not giving you any useable information.     BS Flag


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/26/2009 at 03:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 10:29
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At lower magnifications, most scopes do not use the full obective lens.  How much of it is used is mostly a matter of design considerations.  From an actual usage standpoint it doe snot matter much since the exit pupil is likely to be much bigger than your eye pupil (as Wes pointed out above).

If your eye gets up to 7mm eye pupil (in complete darkness, so it is usually a fair bit less), then it makes no difference to you whether the exit pupil of the scope at low magnification is 10m or 12mm.

ILya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 10:36
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what koshkin said...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 11:52
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I am sure you guye are correct. You are all very knowledgeable on scopes and I am not. I sold the 1.5-6x40 Burris in spite of it having a perfect power range for my needs. It was a bit too heavy for this type scope. I may not be getting useful information by checking the scopes this way but the visible much larger exit pupil of the 1.75-5x32 give me much more confidence in it. It is the one going on my rifles
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 17:26
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I checked the exit pupil size on every scope I own. That would include two models of the vx3 line, three models of the vxlll line, three kinds of vxll a 4200 scope , a3200 scope, a fullfield ll scope three kinds of monarch scopes, and two kinds of conquest scopes. Every one of these 16 different scopes had the size exit pupil it was supposed to have by the math formula stated previously. The only scope with an exit pupil way smaller than it should be is the Burris Signature Select 1.5-6x40. Can anyone explain this?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 18:02
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Koshkin, I understand what yuo are saying about exit pupil size and the eye being able to use it. At 1.5 this Burris has an exit pupil of about 12mm not the 27mm it is suppose to have. I understand that 12mm is more light than my eyes can use. But what if I am hunting in low light with it set on 6 power? The exit pupil goes down to about 3mm, not so good. My 1.75-5x32  set at 5 would the 6.4 exit pupil it is suppose to have so that is the scope for me. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 18:04
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I'm guessing a bad lens or two...either way that is one of the ugliest scopes I've seen yet, the dimensions look all jacked up. 

It seems very over-priced considering they are the most complained about big-named brand (based on my past 14-16 months researching the hell out of scopes).

Seems like every forum I go by there is a Burris having problems....especially illuminated models.

Anyway, I hope you get all or most of your money back, or if you get a replacement the next one is a lot better.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 19:06
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Originally posted by boliodogs boliodogs wrote:

Koshkin, I understand what yuo are saying about exit pupil size and the eye being able to use it. At 1.5 this Burris has an exit pupil of about 12mm not the 27mm it is suppose to have. I understand that 12mm is more light than my eyes can use. But what if I am hunting in low light with it set on 6 power? The exit pupil goes down to about 3mm, not so good. My 1.75-5x32  set at 5 would the 6.4 exit pupil it is suppose to have so that is the scope for me. 

That is mostly incorrect.  Unless something is wrong with the scope, as you increase magnification, the scope will use a progressively greater part of the objective lens until somewhere around 3.5x you start using the whole objective lens.  At 6x, you exit pupil would be 6.67mm.

If you are concerned about low light, 1.5-6x40 Sig Select (that is the scope, right?) is a better choice than the 1.75-5x32.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 19:10
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danjojoUSMC thanks, it is nice to have someone believe me. It is an ugly scope and very heavy. I will lose some money on this one, about $100. That is ok I have won some good scopes at good prices. I do like the 1.75-5 Burris SS. But I do not like the 1.5-6x40. Thanks for your kind words.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 21:45
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Looking at small scopes if I was going to get one right now, I think this looks like a really cool little scope http://swfa.com/Weaver-2-10x38-Classic-V-Rifle-Scope-P40147.aspx

2-10x38 only 11 ounces and 12.5 inches with ballistic plex for $199.95

Also I really like the reticle on this one http://swfa.com/Vortex-2-7x32-Viper-Rifle-Scope-P11227.aspx   For some reason the circle with cross-hairs inside reticles really draw me to them...they seem like they would be very fast up close and still very accurate at distance with your eyes naturally going to the circle.  From what I've seen people love the Vortex VIP warranty also, I know it makes me want to be a customer.

How do you like those Burris scopes besides the exit pupil problem with the one?  What are the reticles you have for them?  I don't see the 1.75-5x on the Burris website. 








Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 22:15
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Originally posted by boliodogs boliodogs wrote:

Tip69, I would say disgusted would better describe my feelings than " worry about it. " There is no store where I live that have high end Burris scopes I can look at. I  got the Burris 1.75-5x32 first and I loved it so I got the 1.5-6x40 at auction thinking it would also be an excellent scope. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect Burris to put out a high end scope that matches the catalog specs. If I could have seen the 1.5-6x40 first I would not have purchased it. I have ordered Bushnell, Zeiss, and Nikons that I never saw before and they all had the proper size exit pupil. This 1.5-6x40 does not and I tell this forum about it to perhaps give a prospective buyer of this scope a heads up.


I hear ya!  I'd say something was wrong with the scope.  Maybe you could send it back to Burris and have them check it out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2009 at 23:26
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koshkin, I know the 1.5-6x40 is a better low light in theory but I had both scopes side by side with the 1.75-5 set on 5 and the 1.5-6x40 set on 6. The exit pupil was easy to see on both scopes. The 1.75-5x32 had an exit pupil over twice the width of the 1.5-6x40 . This was true with both scopes set on high, low, or in the middle. I have to go with what I see with my own eyes.     danjojoUSMC, I like the 1.75-5 alot. It weighs 12.5 ounces and has very good eye relief. The 5 power really is 5 not 4.5 or 4.6. I like the reticle. It is pretty thick lines that come pretty close together gets thin where the crosshairs meet for precision shooting. Burris calls it Taper Plex. If you can get a Burris catalog it shows the different reticles. I just wrote a post about the little Weaver Grand Slam 1.5-5x32, I think I tittled the post "The Grand Slams arrived" or something like that. It should still be near the top.
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