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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2011 at 15:44
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I am considering purchasing a Sightron S III 20x-42mm (straight power) for ground-hog hunting here in Pa. I am concerned that the modified mil-dot reticles dots might be too large and cover up the aiming point on the earth-pig at long ranges. (over 800 yards) Does anyone that owns this scope or reticle type, have something to comment about my concern ? 

Edited by Blackbird - March/25/2011 at 15:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2011 at 15:56
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Have not used this scope, but per Sightron's technical data, the thin lines of the reticle are .14 inches wide at the center.  .14 x 8 (for 800 yds) would be 1.12" of coverage. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2011 at 21:16
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If you insist on having a lot of magnification, I would strongly recommend going with a scope that has a larger objective lens.  For example, within the Sightron S3 line-up, at 20x, the image quality of 6-24x50 or 8-32x56 is head and shoulders above the 20x42.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2011 at 01:44
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Thanks for the comments guys. Since this scope will be on a dedicated ground-hog rifle, I like the simplicity of the straight 20x. I didn't know that the smaller Obj lens would have an effect on image quality. I do realize that my exit pupil, and amount of usable light is not that great. I will contact Bill Ackerman, Cecil Tucker, and Wally Seibert to see if either of these 3 gentleman change reticles on the straight power S III's. The tacticle "modified mill-dot" is my main concern.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2011 at 18:48
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Well, after talking to Sightron and Bill Ackerman, the reticles can't be changed on the SIII's. So, any suggestions for a FIXED power (20-24), 30mm tube with at least 75 MOA elevation travel, and an ultra-fine crosshair, or .125 target dot reticle ? I have a line on a Mark IV Leupy 16x that was boosted by Premier Reticles to 24x, but I'm leary since Premier & Leupold won't do any warranty work any longer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2011 at 19:30
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I am still not sure why you want a fixed power scope (or insist on a 30mm tube for that matter), but to each his own, I suppose.

I am not aware of any scope that fits your requirements exactly.

The closest are probably two scopes with 1" tubes:

Sightron S2 Big Sky 24x44 with target dot reticle (60MOA adjustment range)

and Leupold FX-3 Silhouette 25x40 (40MO adjustment range).

Still, if I were you I would go get Sightron S3 6-24x50 or 8-32x56 with target dot reticle.  If you really want a fixed power scope, you can always put some duct tape over the magnification dial.

If you really need the smallest possible dot size, I think Sightron S3 10-50x60 has the tiniest one I have seen at 0.1MOA or thereabouts.

ILya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2011 at 22:20
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I was hoping for an excellent, high quality straight power scope, in the 20-24x range, since changing power is not needed for my application."Fixed" power is for simplicity. (less things to go wrong), and I assumed that money would be saved staying with a fixed. Also the scope will be used for long range ground-hog shooting (800-1200 yards), and load developement only. The 30mm tube diameter is for more MOA mainly in elevation.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2011 at 22:26
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Oh, by the way, after talking with the Sightron tech support, the 60 MOA as you mention (SII Big Sky) is TOTAL for both elevation and windage. So it would be 30 MOA in elev, and 30 MOA in wind. This is not nearly enough for my application.

Edited by Blackbird - March/07/2011 at 22:28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2011 at 22:45
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Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

Oh, by the way, after talking with the Sightron tech support, the 60 MOA as you mention (SII Big Sky) is TOTAL for both elevation and windage. So it would be 30 MOA in elev, and 30 MOA in wind. This is not nearly enough for my application.

Who did you talk to in tech support?

That is a misunderstanding of some sort.  When they say total it means 60MOA elevation (30 up and 30 down) from the center and 60 windage (30 left and 30 right).

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/07/2011 at 22:47
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Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

I was hoping for an excellent, high quality straight power scope, in the 20-24x range, since changing power is not needed for my application."Fixed" power is for simplicity. (less things to go wrong), and I assumed that money would be saved staying with a fixed. Also the scope will be used for long range ground-hog shooting (800-1200 yards), and load developement only. The 30mm tube diameter is for more MOA mainly in elevation.  

You reasoning is perfectly correct in theory.  However, in practice, there is so little demand for high magnification fixed power scopes that you often pay premium for them.  Besides, variable scopes from quality makers got so good that in most cases there is no downside to going with one of them.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2011 at 01:27
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

I was hoping for an excellent, high quality straight power scope, in the 20-24x range, since changing power is not needed for my application."Fixed" power is for simplicity. (less things to go wrong), and I assumed that money would be saved staying with a fixed. Also the scope will be used for long range ground-hog shooting (800-1200 yards), and load developement only. The 30mm tube diameter is for more MOA mainly in elevation.  

You reasoning is perfectly correct in theory.  However, in practice, there is so little demand for high magnification fixed power scopes that you often pay premium for them.  Besides, variable scopes from quality makers got so good that in most cases there is no downside to going with one of them.

ILya
I didn't write down the guys name, but I just spoke to him on Monday, 3/7. (after 3:00 PM EST) I was actually asking about the SIII 20x 42mm advertised 150 MOA (if it was 150 elev, and 150 wind), and he said, "150 MOA was the total for BOTH the elev & wind". I then asked if it was fair to say 75 MOA elev, and 75 MOA wind, and he told me "that is correct". Please don't shoot the messenger, this is exactly what I was told.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2011 at 10:14
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Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

I was hoping for an excellent, high quality straight power scope, in the 20-24x range, since changing power is not needed for my application."Fixed" power is for simplicity. (less things to go wrong), and I assumed that money would be saved staying with a fixed. Also the scope will be used for long range ground-hog shooting (800-1200 yards), and load developement only. The 30mm tube diameter is for more MOA mainly in elevation.  

You reasoning is perfectly correct in theory.  However, in practice, there is so little demand for high magnification fixed power scopes that you often pay premium for them.  Besides, variable scopes from quality makers got so good that in most cases there is no downside to going with one of them.

ILya
I didn't write down the guys name, but I just spoke to him on Monday, 3/7. (after 3:00 PM EST) I was actually asking about the SIII 20x 42mm advertised 150 MOA (if it was 150 elev, and 150 wind), and he said, "150 MOA was the total for BOTH the elev & wind". I then asked if it was fair to say 75 MOA elev, and 75 MOA wind, and he told me "that is correct". Please don't shoot the messenger, this is exactly what I was told.

As I said, there was a miscommunication somewhere, since that is simply not correct (not your fault; these things happen).

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2011 at 10:26
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

I was hoping for an excellent, high quality straight power scope, in the 20-24x range, since changing power is not needed for my application."Fixed" power is for simplicity. (less things to go wrong), and I assumed that money would be saved staying with a fixed. Also the scope will be used for long range ground-hog shooting (800-1200 yards), and load developement only. The 30mm tube diameter is for more MOA mainly in elevation.  

You reasoning is perfectly correct in theory.  However, in practice, there is so little demand for high magnification fixed power scopes that you often pay premium for them.  Besides, variable scopes from quality makers got so good that in most cases there is no downside to going with one of them.

ILya
I didn't write down the guys name, but I just spoke to him on Monday, 3/7. (after 3:00 PM EST) I was actually asking about the SIII 20x 42mm advertised 150 MOA (if it was 150 elev, and 150 wind), and he said, "150 MOA was the total for BOTH the elev & wind". I then asked if it was fair to say 75 MOA elev, and 75 MOA wind, and he told me "that is correct". Please don't shoot the messenger, this is exactly what I was told.

As I said, there was a miscommunication somewhere, since that is simply not correct (not your fault; these things happen).

ILya
 

Blackbird,

 ILya is the TOP of the TOPS in optics and all things optical. You ask a question and got a truthful answer. In all honesty when the company workers have a question about there scopes they call ILya, yes he is that good and knowledgeable about them. Oh and he test just about ALL scopes before they hit the open market.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 10:00
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Blackbird: I run a 20X SS on my .22-250 groundhog rifle. No problems with the dots covering up. Frankly have never missed variable power and it will focus down close very well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 14:52
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Originally posted by lewwetzel lewwetzel wrote:

Blackbird: I run a 20X SS on my .22-250 groundhog rifle. No problems with the dots covering up. Frankly have never missed variable power and it will focus down close very well.
Thanks for the reply, but I'm not worrying about focusing down close. We don't shoot at the ground-hogs under 500 yards. I'm concerned about the dots and center crosshairs covering up my aiming point at over 800 yards, out to 1200 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 15:37
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You shooting groundhogs out to 1200 yds?  WOW
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 16:11
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SS standards 
.25 mils at 800 yards = 7.2 in dot
crosshair will be about 2 inches wide there
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2011 at 20:35
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Originally posted by topbrass topbrass wrote:

You shooting groundhogs out to 1200 yds?  WOW
Yes, we shoot at them that far, but my longest confirmed kill is 881 yards. My best friend got in the 1000 yard club last year with a 1056 yard witnessed kill. Our riflesmith (who is a retired tool & die maker) had 9 witnessed kills of over 1000 yards in the 2010 season.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 15:06
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

I was hoping for an excellent, high quality straight power scope, in the 20-24x range, since changing power is not needed for my application."Fixed" power is for simplicity. (less things to go wrong), and I assumed that money would be saved staying with a fixed. Also the scope will be used for long range ground-hog shooting (800-1200 yards), and load developement only. The 30mm tube diameter is for more MOA mainly in elevation.  

You reasoning is perfectly correct in theory.  However, in practice, there is so little demand for high magnification fixed power scopes that you often pay premium for them.  Besides, variable scopes from quality makers got so good that in most cases there is no downside to going with one of them.

ILya
Well I just got off of the phone (3/25/11, 3:55 PM EST) with Steven (tech support with Sightron) and he told me, that the 70 MOA for windage/elevation is total for both. I said, " you mean 70 MOA TOTAL for windage, and 70 MOA TOTAL for elevation ? " He said "NO, absolutely not, the 70 MOA is 35 MOA for windage, and 35 MOA for elevation." I said " are you sure about this ?". He said "I am 100% positive."
 
Someone better get their facts straight. I don't know who, but I am holding off buying a Sightron SIII SS 8-32x 56mm until this is positively clarified. 


Edited by Blackbird - March/25/2011 at 15:06
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 16:30
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Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

I was hoping for an excellent, high quality straight power scope, in the 20-24x range, since changing power is not needed for my application."Fixed" power is for simplicity. (less things to go wrong), and I assumed that money would be saved staying with a fixed. Also the scope will be used for long range ground-hog shooting (800-1200 yards), and load developement only. The 30mm tube diameter is for more MOA mainly in elevation.  

You reasoning is perfectly correct in theory.  However, in practice, there is so little demand for high magnification fixed power scopes that you often pay premium for them.  Besides, variable scopes from quality makers got so good that in most cases there is no downside to going with one of them.

ILya
Well I just got off of the phone (3/25/11, 3:55 PM EST) with Steven (tech support with Sightron) and he told me, that the 70 MOA for windage/elevation is total for both. I said, " you mean 70 MOA TOTAL for windage, and 70 MOA TOTAL for elevation ? " He said "NO, absolutely not, the 70 MOA is 35 MOA for windage, and 35 MOA for elevation." I said " are you sure about this ?". He said "I am 100% positive."
 
Someone better get their facts straight. I don't know who, but I am holding off buying a Sightron SIII SS 8-32x 56mm until this is positively clarified. 

If that recollection of the conversation is accurate, Steven should be fired on grounds of incompetence.

It is 70MOA of total elevation adjustment and 70MOA of total windage adjustment.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 17:18
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First off I have never heard of the stated adjustment range of a scope combining both windage and elevation since they operate 90 degrees from each-other. That just makes absolutely no sense, why would you even want to combine the 2. It has 35MOA in either direction from center but that = 70MOA total in EACH plane. Not ragging on you, I know you are just repeating what you were told but something is missing somewhere. Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 17:33
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Ok just for grins I grabbed one of my 3-9X42 SII B/S. I know it's not the same scope but it's the same adjustment system from the same manufacturer and has the same advertised 70 MOA adjustment range as the one you are looking at. Based on just twisting the knobs I had 71MOA Elevation and 72MOA windage. 

Edited by biggreen747 - March/25/2011 at 17:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 17:37
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Originally posted by biggreen747 biggreen747 wrote:

First off I have never heard of the stated adjustment range of a scope combining both windage and elevation since they operate 90 degrees from each-other. That just makes absolutely no sense, why would you even want to combine the 2. It has 35MOA in either direction from center but that = 70MOA total in EACH plane. Not ragging on you, I know you are just repeating what you were told but something is missing somewhere. Whacko
If you view Sightrons website it shows windage elevation travel 70 MOA. I too, find it hard to believe that a 30 mm tube diameter in 8-32x 56mm would only have 35 MOA total for windage, and 35 MOA total for elevation. But what really messes with my mind is, this is the second tech support guy that I spoke with at Sightron who has repeatably said they are "100% positive" of this. I think that I'll take a second look at the Minox ZA5/30, (6-30x 56mm). I believe that they advertise 80 MOA total.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 17:38
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is he stating up and down??? 35+35???  not up and down and left and right...

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!! (the guy at SIGHTRON)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2011 at 17:44
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Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

is he stating up and down??? 35+35???  not up and down and left and right...

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!! (the guy at SIGHTRON)


That"s what I'm wondering. Is he quoting it from center???? My 3-9 zeroed on my rifle I have 32 Down / 39 Up, 33 Left and 39 Right...... Or as stated before just a bit better than the advertised 70MOA of adjustment in each plane.
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