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Sightron S2 Big Sky 1.25-5x20 reticle

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Poll Question: Which reticle is the best fit for a 1.25-5x20 scope?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
0 [0.00%]
7 [46.67%]
4 [26.67%]
3 [20.00%]
1 [6.67%]
You can not vote in this poll

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2008 at 20:13
koshkin View Drop Down
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I have recently reviewed Sightron's 1.25-5x20 S2 Big Sky scope.  I thought it was an awesome little scope with a reticle a touch too thin for the applications where a scope like this might be used.  At the SHOT show, I had a nice chat with Sightron's Product Manager Alan Orr, and promised to get some feedback for him.

What do you guys think?  Which reticle would you like to see in a low range variable like this?

Thanks.
ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2008 at 20:34
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4a would be a great offering for Sightron (in more than one application...)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2008 at 20:36
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Koshkin, 

Would you happen to know where the Sightron S III is made, and by who?

Thanks!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2008 at 20:40
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                   Been looking at low range varibles lately but I'm just not sure if a max of 5x would be enough,maybe a max of 8x. As far as the poll goes,out of the 4 reticles you list I would favor the #4 big time. Just thought I'd metion that I have a K4 El Paso Weaver I had redone  a few years back and it has the thin horizontal crosshair w/thick vertical post. I find it's worked REAL good on some of the in close jump shots I've had to take. Maybe it would be another option to consider.
 
                                                                               til later
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2008 at 21:00
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Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

Koshkin, 

Would you happen to know where the Sightron S III is made, and by who?

Thanks!



All Sightron scopes, including SIII, are made in Japan.  I have heard that they have their own factory there, but I can not positively confirm it. 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2008 at 21:03
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Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

                   Been looking at low range varibles lately but I'm just not sure if a max of 5x would be enough,maybe a max of 8x. As far as the poll goes,out of the 4 reticles you list I would favor the #4 big time. Just thought I'd metion that I have a K4 El Paso Weaver I had redone  a few years back and it has the thin horizontal crosshair w/thick vertical post. I find it's worked REAL good on some of the in close jump shots I've had to take. Maybe it would be another option to consider.
 
                                                                               til later


The reticle you are referring to is usually called "post and crosshair".  It is a very fast reticle for close up shots.  I think it was originally invented for use on running game but I could be wrong.  I am not sure if anyone still puts into their scopes as a standard item, but I had a new Burris 1.75-5x32 a couple of years ago with that reticle.  I suspect you can have it as a custom shop option from a few makers.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2008 at 21:11
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Originally posted by brodeur272 brodeur272 wrote:

4a would be a great offering for Sightron (in more than one application...)


Sightron had that reticle in their 1.5-6x50 S3 scope for a long time.  Now they will have it in another S3 scope designed fro European-style low light hunting: 3.5-10x56 with #4 reticle and illuminated dot.

The argument I am trying to make is that a small light scope with generous eye relief like the 1.25-5x20 should have a thick bold reticle that emphasizes fast target acquisition. 

ILya


Edited by koshkin - February/09/2008 at 21:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2008 at 21:36
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Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

                   Been looking at low range varibles lately but I'm just not sure if a max of 5x would be enough,maybe a max of 8x. As far as the poll goes,out of the 4 reticles you list I would favor the #4 big time. Just thought I'd metion that I have a K4 El Paso Weaver I had redone  a few years back and it has the thin horizontal crosshair w/thick vertical post. I find it's worked REAL good on some of the in close jump shots I've had to take. Maybe it would be another option to consider.
 
                                                                               til later
 
 That is one of the most useful heavy-cover/ low light reticles ever made.
 It is stone-simple and FAST. I simply cannot understand why it is so readily unavailable!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 06:50
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                        RONK,your right on about the"post and crosshair"reticle(thank ya koshkin!). I also have the first Weaver scope I ever bought new back in the late 60's which had a fine crosshair reticle.  Sent it  to El Paso for a checkup and tried to get a post and crosshair put in but even they don't offer it anymore. Ended up with a duplex which is better than the fine one.
 
                                                                                           til later
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 07:04
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In the power range you are talking about, I think a heavy reticle would be appropriate, followed by other bold reticles, like 4A and 7A, etc.                  --Ed 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 09:43
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I own one of these, and a # 4 would make it even better. Here is a pic of the little "Big Sky" mounted on my Grendel


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 10:55
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That's a nice set-up Goju.  I have a higher powered (3-9x42) scope on my 6.5 Grendel, but that is mostly because I shoot plates pretty far out with it.  I tried Wally's 1.25-5x20 BigSky on a couple of rifles and it was an absolutely perfect fit on a super light Kel-tec SU-16 223 rifle.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.  Keep it coming.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 11:00
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

                   Been looking at low range varibles lately but I'm just not sure if a max of 5x would be enough,maybe a max of 8x. As far as the poll goes,out of the 4 reticles you list I would favor the #4 big time. Just thought I'd metion that I have a K4 El Paso Weaver I had redone  a few years back and it has the thin horizontal crosshair w/thick vertical post. I find it's worked REAL good on some of the in close jump shots I've had to take. Maybe it would be another option to consider.
 
                                                                               til later
 
 That is one of the most useful heavy-cover/ low light reticles ever made.
 It is stone-simple and FAST. I simply cannot understand why it is so readily unavailable!


I think what killed (for all practical purposes) the post and crosshair reticle is the infatuation we all have with shooting tiny groups and shooting further out where you need to hold over the target.  That thick post was not designed for target shooting and is not good for it.

That is really the strength of the #4 reticle: allround versatility.  You get the thick posts for low light work, but the center crosshair is still thin enough for precision shooting.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 11:18
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My last low power was a Burris signature safari with the 4a reticle. I think this is the perfect reticle for close in woods/heavy cover quick to pickup the field and centers quickly. Has the cross hairs for target and gives the ability to reachout accurately if the situation presents itself.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 11:43
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I've never even seen one of these reticles before..... but this is starting to peak my interest.  Not enough to go out and buy a scope just to try it, but enough to check around and see if anyone at my club has one so I can take a look thru it in the real world!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 11:57
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                     Hey smithrjd,what do mean your last low power"was"a Burris Sig. Safari? Do you still have it? Trying to get some feedback on some low power variables and  your Burris is one that appeals to me. Any info you could provide would sure be appreciated!
                     
                                                             til later
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 12:14
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I thought it was a given that low power scopes and heavy reticles went hand in hand.
A number 4 or heavy dpx would work for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 12:32
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I bought the Burris before I bought the big caliber gun, things changed and I got a Steyr in 6.5X57 used the Burris a little before trading it for a higher power scope. I really liked it, very clear and bright. I think Koshkin reviewed the scope and liked it as well. Just yesterday I ordered a CZ in 9.3X62 so now I'm looking for another low power and the Burris is on the list. You don't see them with the 3P-4a reticle often however.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 12:41
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Originally posted by smithrjd smithrjd wrote:

.......Just yesterday I ordered a CZ in 9.3X62 so now I'm looking for another low power and the Burris is on the list. You don't see them with the 3P-4a reticle often however.  
 
Just curious...... was your CZ purchase influenced by Layne Simpson's article in the March '08 issue of "Shooting Times"?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 12:48
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Actually no, I have know about the 9.3X62 Mauser for quite awhile. John Barsness (SP) has also written quite abit on this caliber as well. Big bore power, medium action, and does not kick like a big magnum. Close to the 35 Whelen but has more power as it can handle heavier weight bullets. Poor mans 375 H&H . Used alot in Africa and Aisa. I will look for the article however.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 13:27
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

                   Been looking at low range varibles lately but I'm just not sure if a max of 5x would be enough,maybe a max of 8x. As far as the poll goes,out of the 4 reticles you list I would favor the #4 big time. Just thought I'd metion that I have a K4 El Paso Weaver I had redone  a few years back and it has the thin horizontal crosshair w/thick vertical post. I find it's worked REAL good on some of the in close jump shots I've had to take. Maybe it would be another option to consider.
 
                                                                               til later
 
 That is one of the most useful heavy-cover/ low light reticles ever made.
 It is stone-simple and FAST. I simply cannot understand why it is so readily unavailable!


I think what killed (for all practical purposes) the post and crosshair reticle is the infatuation we all have with shooting tiny groups and shooting further out where you need to hold over the target.  That thick post was not designed for target shooting and is not good for it.

That is really the strength of the #4 reticle: allround versatility.  You get the thick posts for low light work, but the center crosshair is still thin enough for precision shooting.

ILya
 
 All good points. I do believe, however, that in stressful situations wherein the thin crosshairs are lost in brush or poor light, that many people have a tendency to use the top of the thick lower vertical post section as thier aiming point with a #4. This causes overshooting, which is less likely to occur with a post & crosshair reticle. Just my opinion and personal preference, at least for some applications.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 13:34
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                               HEY,maybe somebody could design a quick change,muti-reticle scope!!! Man this stuff makes my head hurt.
 
                                                                     til later
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 16:15
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

                   Been looking at low range varibles lately but I'm just not sure if a max of 5x would be enough,maybe a max of 8x. As far as the poll goes,out of the 4 reticles you list I would favor the #4 big time. Just thought I'd metion that I have a K4 El Paso Weaver I had redone  a few years back and it has the thin horizontal crosshair w/thick vertical post. I find it's worked REAL good on some of the in close jump shots I've had to take. Maybe it would be another option to consider.
 
                                                                               til later
 
 That is one of the most useful heavy-cover/ low light reticles ever made.
 It is stone-simple and FAST. I simply cannot understand why it is so readily unavailable!


I think what killed (for all practical purposes) the post and crosshair reticle is the infatuation we all have with shooting tiny groups and shooting further out where you need to hold over the target.  That thick post was not designed for target shooting and is not good for it.

That is really the strength of the #4 reticle: allround versatility.  You get the thick posts for low light work, but the center crosshair is still thin enough for precision shooting.

ILya
 
 All good points. I do believe, however, that in stressful situations wherein the thin crosshairs are lost in brush or poor light, that many people have a tendency to use the top of the thick lower vertical post section as thier aiming point with a #4. This causes overshooting, which is less likely to occur with a post & crosshair reticle. Just my opinion and personal preference, at least for some applications.


That is certainly a very good point.  I have used post and crosshair reticle comparatively little, but I have used a German #1 reticle quite a bit and it is one of the most foolproof  designs I have ever used.  As a side note, I find certain vindication in the fact that Chuck Hawks considers #1 and #4 reticles among the worst available (which pretty much tells you what I think of Chuck Hawks and his opinions).

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2008 at 16:17
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Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

                               HEY,maybe somebody could design a quick change,muti-reticle scope!!! Man this stuff makes my head hurt.
 
                                                                     til later


That would be a bit difficult with conventional reticle designs.  There are some red dot sights that give you a choice of multiple reticles, and, of course, with Elcan's Digital Hunter you can have any reticle you want.

ILya
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

Koshkin, 

Would you happen to know where the Sightron S III is made, and by who?

Thanks!



All Sightron scopes, including SIII, are made in Japan.  I have heard that they have their own factory there, but I can not positively confirm it. 

ILya
 
Thank You!
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