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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 00:16
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I was wondering at what range would be the best to sight in my EO if I wanted to use it from CQB ranges out to 100 yards?

I heard something like if you sight in at 50 yds. then you will be pretty much + or - 2 inches at all ranges under 200 yards.  Is that right?
 
Also, I have the EO mounted on a flattop AR that is used primarily for home defense and sometimes hunting (this is where the 100 yards comes into play)
 
Thanks for the responses fellas!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 00:29
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  zero at 200 

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - September/12/2009 at 20:15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 11:27
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Well, seeing as I'm not military, I don't honestly see the benefit for me to zero at 200-300 yards.  In my mind, if I have to take a shot at that distance at anything I would want to use a scoped weapon, not my AR with the EO.  Like you said with the 12 ga. being the best for home defense (which I do agree, I just unfortunately don't have a shotgun) I think a scoped weapon would be better at those ranges.
 
I pray that I never have to, but if I were to have to fire on another human being in a self defense situation at cqb ranges with my AR, what would be the range that I would want to sight my EO in at?
 
As for animals and hunting, I also agree with what you said.  I am a hunter not some weekend shooter and wouldn't take a shot on an animal that wasn't humane.  Therefore I would know the correct zero, distance to target, holdover/under, and any other factor that I would need before I make that shot.  And these are small game (hog sized) that I'm talking about btw.
 
I could always zero my EO for CQB ranges and my irons for my hunting ranges, but again, what would be the optimum zero for both?  What are your suggestions?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 11:32
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Oh and if this helps, the ammo that I am using is the 55 gr. Lake City XM193 and my AR is a 16" with a 1 in 9  twist rate.
 
Thanks again for your responses
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 15:59
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I have never fired a 16" barrel, or a holgraphic sight. But with a m-16a2service rifle battle zero was at 25 yds, witch put you dead on at 200 yds. This was with 62gr. NATO ammo. As always YMMV. and I am going from memory of a long time ago, but Marine Corps Drill Instructos are hard to forget!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 16:54
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  You can always sight it at 25 meters which will zero it at 300 meters as well  -  same same, it shoots really flat from 0 to 300 meters.  As for using 55 FMJ that is a mistake for any hunting or self defense use - one should select a hollowpoint or expanding bullet like Horniday TAP or AMAX and the best ones are Federal, Black Hills & Horniday
 
 
 
If you want to stick with the lighter bullet try the Horniday Ammo
HORNIDAY 223    55 GR TAP-FPD
83278
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3240/1282 2854/995 2500/763 2172/576 1871/427 1598/312
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.5 +1.4 0.0 -7.0
- 2.33moa
-21.4
 -  5.35moa  
-45.9
  - 9.18 moa
                                                                                    
 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - September/12/2009 at 20:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 17:03
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You are correct Wes! As soon as I read the the first line of your last post I rembered the -2 clicks for the 200 yard line! My apologies for the miss information.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 17:10
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No Problem
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 17:16
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If you sight in at 50 you are correct you will be within 2 inches at 200 yards.  Up close for precision shots you will need to aim high though to compensate for the distance from the sight to the barrel.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 19:00
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

If you sight in at 50 you are correct you will be within 2 inches at 200 yards.  Up close for precision shots you will need to aim high though to compensate for the distance from the sight to the barrel.   
 
True.
 Many folks really do not understand this phenomenon, but you can prove it to yourself quite easily. Take a precisly -aimed shot at a very small dot on a piece of clear paper from five or ten yars off the muzzle. You will find that the bullet will hit LOW; perhaps an inch and a half low at five yards, the point of impact moving higher gradually as the range increases until it is hitting the actual point of aim at fifty yards (if that's the distance you sighted it in.)
 
 I know a guy Wink who had to know this trick to shoot a bat in the head at 1:30 AM last night with a scoped .22 and CBEE ammo, after it flew around inside the house terrorizing every SCREAMING female in residence. It landed on a curtain rod and hung upside down there for a few seconds. Said guy aimed (HIGH) at it's arse and dropped it DRT!
 Leupold 2-7 scope mounted 1-1/2 inches above bore. Bullet barely lodged in the oak trim, said guy was able to pull it out w/finger nails.
 
Said guy went back to bed after cleaning up crime scene.
 
Not the first time this has happened, either.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 19:58
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 Wow Ron! That is quite a shot!(especially, with the insider knowledge of just how many females in your friends houseWink maybe screaming!)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 20:12
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Ah the deep end of the pool.   Lets see .5 moa per click thats  1/2 in at 100 and 1/4 in at 50 and 1/8 at 25  and on the high end 1 in at 200 or 1.5 at 300 --- per click.  so dial it in

Now doesnt it follow that :  " If you sight in at 50 you are correct you will be within 2 inches at 200 yards."  that it also works the way I suggested that if you sight in at 200 you will be withing 2 inches at 50  or for that matter it is really a moot point because its so flat from 1 yard to 300 yds that any distance you want to sight in at   12 yds  39 yds 76yds or what ever the effect remains the same that the metal will strike the meat at any distance between the end of the barrel and 300 yds + because men are built up and down and the cartridge has a very flat trajectory.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 20:12
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 It was probably pretty stupid of my friend (Smoking Bandit) to fire a .22 inside the house, (in town !) in the middle of the night.
 
But I'll give him a pass on that minor indescretion, because sometimes a man has to defend his domicile against all enemies, foreign and domestic, including  marsupials (or whatever the hell those little, rabid, flying-monkey things are...)
 His wife agrees that it had to be done, and that's good enough for him, I guess.
 (His kids now think he's a pretty cool guy, too!)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 20:21
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I got a mouse and a oops  kitchen cabinet one time with a 38 shot shell,  and I got a snake that dropped on me in the shower with a cavalry saber after I regained my composure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 20:52
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Max Point blank range is 304 yds when zeroed at 263 yds.
Range
yds
Path
in
ComeUp
clicks
Velocity
fps
Energy
ft/lbs
Momentum
lb ft/s
ToF
sec
Windage
in
Windage
clicks
Optimal
Game Wgt
Muzzle -2.5 Infinity 3240 1282 25.46 0.000 0.0 NaN 154
25 0.0 0 3141 1205 24.68 0.024 0.1 1 141
50 2.3 -9 3045 1132 23.92 0.048 0.3 1 128
75 4.3 -11 2950 1063 23.18 0.073 0.6 2 117
100 6.1 -12 2858 997 22.45 0.099 1.1 2 106
125 7.6 -12 2767 935 21.74 0.125 1.7 3 96
150 8.9 -11 2679 876 21.05 0.153 2.5 3 87
175 9.8 -11 2592 820 20.36 0.181 3.4 4 79
200 10.4 -10 2507 767 19.70 0.211 4.5 4 71
225 10.7 -9 2424 717 19.04 0.241 5.8 5 65
250 10.6 -8 2342 670 18.40 0.273 7.3 6 58
275 10.1 -7 2262 625 17.78 0.305 8.9 6 53
300 9.2 -6 2184 582 17.16 0.339 10.8 7 47
Range
yds
Path
in
ComeUp
clicks
Velocity
fps
Energy
ft/lbs
Momentum
lb ft/s
ToF
sec
Windage
in
Windage
clicks
Optimal
Game Wgt
Muzzle -2.5 Infinity 3240 1282 25.46 0.000 0.0 NaN 154
25 -1.1 9 3141 1205 24.68 0.024 0.1 1 141
50 0.0 0 3045 1132 23.92 0.048 0.3 1 128
75 0.9 -2 2950 1063 23.18 0.073 0.6 2 117
100 1.6 -3 2858 997 22.45 0.099 1.1 2 106
125 1.9 -3 2767 935 21.74 0.125 1.7 3 96
150 2.1 -3 2679 876 21.05 0.153 2.5 3 87
175 1.9 -2 2592 820 20.36 0.181 3.4 4 79
200 1.3 -1 2507 767 19.70 0.211 4.5 4 71
225 0.5 0 2424 717 19.04 0.241 5.8 5 65
250 -0.8 1 2342 670 18.40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 22:20
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I got a mouse and a oops  kitchen cabinet one time with a 38 shot shell,  and I got a snake that dropped on me in the shower with a cavalry saber after I regained my composure.
 
 Shocked
 I would not have been able to regain my composure.
 
The news story would have read "Man found dead in shower, heart failure suspected."
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/12/2009 at 23:11
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One of the funniest things I have ever seen was one time my Mother-in-Law called me to remove a snake from her house in a full blown panic! I arrived to find her standing on the kitchen counter screaming "kill it" and pointing at a 2" long baby king snake. I removed the snake from her house after a brief show and tell about how the snake was harmless(it did go over well!)

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 00:52
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I've delt with numerous snakes in peoples houses in Texas.  They bring in their potted plants in the fall and guess who hitches a ride inside. Snake
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 07:56
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Boy this turn sure took a wildass turn off topic! But entertaining none the less.

Edit for fat fingers and losy spelling!


Edited by billyburl2 - September/13/2009 at 13:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 09:56
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Entertaining and very informative. I will have to re-zero my AR. So Urimaginaryfrnd, just what type of snake was it that dropped in?

Also I would be hesitant to use an AR in home defense. I would be concerned about over penitration and hitting someone I care about.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 13:08
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I'm basing the following off of a couple of assumptions I had to make since the closest bullets I could find are the Hornady .224 V-Max (G1 BC: .255) and the SP and SP-Super Explosive (G1 BC: .235). Either way, given that muzzle velocity, the characteristics of the AR and what your goals are, I suggest zeroing @ 200, which will give you a 4" kill radius from 10-250 yards. From 30-200 yards you will never be more than 1.1" high. While I recommend sighting in @ 200 yards, 60 yards is your other option. This is if you go with the Hornady 55gr.

The Hornady 75gr. TAP, if zeroed at 175 yards (or 55 yards), would give you a 4" kill radius from 10-220 yards and a 2" radius from 30-200 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 14:13
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Thanks guys for the info...the reason why I asked the question in the first place is I had my EO zeroed at 50 and when I took it to the range the other day and shot it from 10-20 yds. I noticed that POI was 4-6 inches below POA and it just struck up the question in my mind what range would be best to zero at...I haven't checked the zero in a while so it may be off which could explain the 4-6 inch discrepency...
 
Oh and I do use 62gr soft point for hunting, but since I really only plan to use it for hogs and maybe squirrels, I think I could get by with headshots with the 55gr ammo...
 
Also, someone talked about the "overpenetration" issue with the AR, but there was a study done by the FBI (I believe) and they were saying that 9mm FMJ handgun rounds penetrated with more deadly force than the 55gr FMJ AR rounds due to the fragmentation effect of the .223/5.56 round.  Obviously you have to be careful with any shot you take inside your home since drywall doesn't offer much in terms of cover for your loved ones.  I can post the link to the study if you guys would like to see it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 15:28
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 I think the overpenetration concern is given way too much hype, especially when adequate penetration needed to stop the threat is debated just as often.
 When you face a human intruder inside your home and fear for your life and that of your loved ones, you are already in a situation of grave danger in which almost anything can happen. Make sure that nobody you love is in the line of fire and put the varmint down ASAP. End the threat quickly with a round capable of doing so.
If the bullet goes through him and hits your neighbors' pink flamingo or lawn jockey on the way out, oh well; he should have chosen a nicer neighborhood to live in. He should buy you a beer for preventing that perp from hitting his house for an invasion the next time he needed a fix...
 Just my opinion; that there's probably no really safe way to shoot a criminal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 17:55
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

If the bullet goes through him and hits your neighbors' pink flamingo or lawn jockey on the way out, oh well; he should have chosen a nicer neighborhood to live in.
 
Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, eh Ron?  Excellent Laugh


Edited by cheaptrick - September/13/2009 at 17:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2009 at 18:21
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 I think the overpenetration concern is given way too much hype, especially when adequate penetration needed to stop the threat is debated just as often.
 When you face a human intruder inside your home and fear for your life and that of your loved ones, you are already in a situation of grave danger in which almost anything can happen. Make sure that nobody you love is in the line of fire and put the varmint down ASAP. End the threat quickly with a round capable of doing so.
If the bullet goes through him and hits your neighbors' pink flamingo or lawn jockey on the way out, oh well; he should have chosen a nicer neighborhood to live in. He should buy you a beer for preventing that perp from hitting his house for an invasion the next time he needed a fix...
 Just my opinion; that there's probably no really safe way to shoot a criminal.


An important note on POA/POI:  when the adrenaline is pumping, you will not be thinking, "I need to aim 4 inches low to compensate for the bullet rise to my 100-yad zero; I really need to aim 4 inches below the exact spot on the intruder where I want to make impact."

I ALWAYS(!) recommend having an aiming device, whether laser or site or optic, that is dead-on at 10 yards for CQB weapons.  I've heard the "I'll jut aim low" line a few times and ahve seen that not work.

When the time comes to start sending rounds, your brain has shut down all critical thinking pathways - as well as rational thinking pathways.

You better have an idiot-proof plan.  For AR's, my referernce is either a red-dot for up close and irons for back-up longer - or a magnifying scope for longer and a laser for up close.  I own both, I run both, I like both for different reasons (lasers can fail but they make a serious mental barrier for any idiot who sees one floating over a body part.

Though Supertool has told me others have told him I am stupid: I am a HUGE advocate for a 12-gauge, pump-action shotgun for home defense (preferably with a light on the pump.)  I don't touch the shotgun till I need it and once I need it the game goes till it ends; however, the guy breaking in to your house may not have committed to kill everyone inside no matter the cost, so his hearing a 12-gauge round get racked into the chamber will play a significant part in his decision to fight or flight.  I don't plan on racking the round to end the fight, but I damn sure know I'd slow way the hell down if advancing in the direction of that sound. 


So, EoTech is great for up close work, but zero it at the range you anticipate engaging - DO NOT zero it at 100 yards and decide that you'll just remember, in that instant of "life-n-death", to aim low.


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