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Side focus vs. M1A recoil

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 07:26
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  I just read that sidefocus can sometimes get knocked around and somehow damaged by rifles with rough recoil. The M1A is notorious for being hard on scopes, as you not only have the force of the bullet's recoil on the rifle, but then you have a big ole op rod slamming forward to complete the cycle. I've read that many scopes aren't designed with the type of shock the M1A dishes out.

  In a couple of days I'm dropping my M1A off at the gunsmith to have a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 installed. It has the sidefocus feature. Am I correct in assuming this scope should be well built enough to handle the M1A?

  Thanks for your replies.

  


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/20/2011 at 07:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 07:44
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I agree with UIF... the Nikon is not a good choice for the M1A.  The SS10xHD would be an outstanding choice.  I have one on my 50BMG and it is holding up well.  Everything about it is quality.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 07:48
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 I already own a Smith Enterprises mount, and I made my own custom cheek riser from fiberglass that works perfectly- I don't recall asking about the mount or cheek weld. I'm not absolutely new to this game, I'm just trying to make the best decision in the $300 scope area.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 08:18
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Exitwound, you asked the question, no one questioned your "history".  The Nikon Buckmaster is a pretty good scope for a pretty good price... it is a hunting scope, not designed to sit on a tactical rifle like the M1A.  It MIGHT work, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.  
 If you are limiting yourself to $300 for a scope for an M1A, I would recommend you stick with irons...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 12:30
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Originally posted by Exitwound Exitwound wrote:

  I just read that sidefocus can sometimes get knocked around and somehow damaged by rifles with rough recoil. The M1A is notorious for being hard on scopes, as you not only have the force of the bullet's recoil on the rifle, but then you have a big ole op rod slamming forward to complete the cycle. I've read that many scopes aren't designed with the type of shock the M1A dishes out.

  In a couple of days I'm dropping my M1A off at the gunsmith to have a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 installed. It has the sidefocus feature. Am I correct in assuming this scope should be well built enough to handle the M1A?

  Thanks for your replies.   
ClownAssumption if the mother of all fxxxups.Clown
 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/20/2011 at 12:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 16:23
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 I'm going to give it a go. There are guys on the M14 firing line forum with hundreds of rounds through theirs so far, and they haven't had a problem. That inspires confidence. 

  I figure this scope will buy me some time to save up for something sturdier, and in the mean time even if it breaks, there is that sweet Nikon warranty.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 16:31
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I don't know. 
I had a Buckmaster on a .300RUM once and it held up for many rounds on that rig. 
That M1A may blow it apart and then again.....

Welcome to Optics Talk!  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 20:10
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Nikon Buckmaster is actually a pretty well built scope with a good reputation for durability.  Now, all things mechanical can and do break occasionally, but I would not worry about it much.

That having been said, the 10x42 HD Super Sniper is built to a an altogether different (higher) standard both optically and mechanically.

As far as side-focus scopes being more susceptible to recoil goes, that (like most old wives' tales) is not a good general statement.  Properly put together side focus scopes are just as tough as scopes with any other means of parallax compensation.

The emphasis here is on making sure it is a well-built scope from a quality maker.  Just about any additional feature introduces extra moving parts, so if the maker does not take the necessary pre-cautions, bad things can happen.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 20:44
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That's what makes OT so fun.  I, personally, would never put a Buckmaster on an M1A... just not my idea of a "fit".  I'm not knocking the Buckmaster, as I said it's a pretty good scope for a pretty good price, just don't think it is the right scope on that rifle.   To each his own.   All my "time" was with an unscoped M-14  so I have a slanted perspective, anyway.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 20:59
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

That's what makes OT so fun.  I, personally, would never put a Buckmaster on an M1A... just not my idea of a "fit".  I'm not knocking the Buckmaster, as I said it's a pretty good scope for a pretty good price, just don't think it is the right scope on that rifle.   To each his own.   All my "time" was with an unscoped M-14  so I have a slanted perspective, anyway.  


Personally, I would not put a Buckmaster on M1A either.  I can think of quite a few other scopes that make a better match configuration-wise.  However, durability would not be a major concern for me.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 21:11
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ILya, you and I agree on most points... HOWEVER...
From a tester's perspective, I have go with the operational "suitability/surviveability" perspective.  Straight out, given the rifle and ITS intended application, AND a situation where you ACTUALLY had to USE the M1a FOR its intended application, meaning that your and possibly others' rear ends are on the line... Nikon Buckmaster (any) or SuperSniper 3-9, 10xHD, 6x, or 1-4???????  Not a rhetorical question...
Yes, of course, the Nikon is an option, just not nearly the best option and not the least likely to fail at the most inopportune time.  Besides, it just doesn't look good sitting on an M1A...




Edited by Kickboxer - February/20/2011 at 21:12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 11:52
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$2000 Battle Rifle  $275 Smith Enterprise Mount  ?$300 Buckmaster Scope Let me guess Wolf ammo. Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Amber Triangle Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA442
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$945.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 13:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 16:59
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

$2000 Battle Rifle  $275 Smith Enterprise Mount  ?$300 Buckmaster Scope Let me guess Wolf ammo.


   Troll much?

  After getting a firsthand look at the buckmaster- it's not going on my M1A. I'm not sure why exactly they would round off the ends of the scope, but it makes it look really gay.

  I'm going to consider some other options at this point. I might just step up to a Monarch.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 17:59
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I had an A.R.T. III on an M!A for years, served me well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 07:48
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Originally posted by Exitwound Exitwound wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

$2000 Battle Rifle  $275 Smith Enterprise Mount  ?$300 Buckmaster Scope Let me guess Wolf ammo.


   Troll much?

  After getting a firsthand look at the buckmaster- it's not going on my M1A. I'm not sure why exactly they would round off the ends of the scope, but it makes it look really gay.

  I'm going to consider some other options at this point. I might just step up to a Monarch.
UF is not a troll, in fact he's a well respected member on this forum.  He just points out the obvious, you have a nice rifle, a nice mount and now you want to skimp on the optics.  Use irons until you can put something worthy on it is all he is getting at and what a lot of us are thinking.  Its would be like putting whitewall tires from walmart on a ferrari, just doesn't makes sense. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 18:20
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  And a valid train of thought... However the M1A is a battle rifle, and not exactly a precision piece of shooting equipment. I'm not going to be making 1,000 yard shots- ever. The most it'll ever see is 4-600 yards, and so even if I chose to shoot wolf ammo through it, I'm sure it would still easily hit a torso size target, which is the rifle's designed purpose.

  I don't see why a lower end scope wouldn't fit the bill, as long as it is built reasonable well. There are plenty of $300 scopes out there that the M1A won't destroy. Why spend more in my situation? It makes no sense to me... Especially if it's something with a warranty like the Nikon. If it breaks, get it repaired and move it to another rifle, or sell it.

 

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 18:32
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Originally posted by Exitwound Exitwound wrote:

  And a valid train of thought... However the M1A is a battle rifle, and not exactly a precision piece of shooting equipment. I'm not going to be making 1,000 yard shots- ever. The most it'll ever see is 4-600 yards, and so even if I chose to shoot wolf ammo through it, I'm sure it would still easily hit a torso size target, which is the rifle's designed purpose.

  I don't see why a lower end scope wouldn't fit the bill, as long as it is built reasonable well. There are plenty of $300 scopes out there that the M1A won't destroy. Why spend more in my situation? It makes no sense to me... Especially if it's something with a warranty like the Nikon. If it breaks, get it repaired and move it to another rifle, or sell it.

 

 

I do not object to putting a $300 scope on this rifle.  However, I would put a different $300 scope if it were up to me.  One of these for example:

or this

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2011 at 18:37
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Exitwound Exitwound wrote:

  And a valid train of thought... However the M1A is a battle rifle, and not exactly a precision piece of shooting equipment. I'm not going to be making 1,000 yard shots- ever. The most it'll ever see is 4-600 yards, and so even if I chose to shoot wolf ammo through it, I'm sure it would still easily hit a torso size target, which is the rifle's designed purpose.

  I don't see why a lower end scope wouldn't fit the bill, as long as it is built reasonable well. There are plenty of $300 scopes out there that the M1A won't destroy. Why spend more in my situation? It makes no sense to me... Especially if it's something with a warranty like the Nikon. If it breaks, get it repaired and move it to another rifle, or sell it.

 

 

I do not object to putting a $300 scope on this rifle.  However, I would put a different $300 scope if it were up to me.  One of these for example:

or this

ILya


There you go!!!  Excellent


EW, please post some pics when you've completed your M1A project.

I haven't scoped mine yet, maybe someday. I have the "Scout" version and still enjoy using the iron sights.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 10:59
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When I had my M1a, I had aquired an older open top ARMS mount for it, and had a 10X Super Sniper on it. For the money, the SS is a great scope. What was the hardest on the scope was not the recoil but the ejected rounds hitting the windage knob. The M1a is long gone now, but the SS, now mounted on my Remington 700, still bears the scars.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 16:02
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M1A....what recoil?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2011 at 16:09
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Originally posted by Magnumdood Magnumdood wrote:

M1A....what recoil?

Op rod slamming back and forth can be tough on scopes.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2011 at 13:23
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by Exitwound Exitwound wrote:

  I just read that sidefocus can sometimes get knocked around and somehow damaged by rifles with rough recoil. The M1A is notorious for being hard on scopes, as you not only have the force of the bullet's recoil on the rifle, but then you have a big ole op rod slamming forward to complete the cycle. I've read that many scopes aren't designed with the type of shock the M1A dishes out.

  In a couple of days I'm dropping my M1A off at the gunsmith to have a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 installed. It has the sidefocus feature. Am I correct in assuming this scope should be well built enough to handle the M1A?

  Thanks for your replies.   
ClownAssumption if the mother of all fxxxups.Clown
 
AMEN.....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2011 at 13:25
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Magnumdood Magnumdood wrote:

M1A....what recoil?

Op rod slamming back and forth can be tough on scopes.

ILya
Not to mention the bolt banging on the back of the reciever.
 
EW...if it were me, as minum I would look for a scope with etched reticles and built for tactical applications.
 
Just saying...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2011 at 00:00
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I just put a SWFA 1-4x24 on mine and it works great for nearly anything you could want.  If it ever fails on me I'll just peep through the Sadlack mount and use the irons.  Nice reticule at 1x for CQB work and 4x gives me a FFP mil reticule for ranging and fine control.  Great glass and built like a tank from what I can see.

Just needs a stronger spring to keep the battery from bouncing around inside the rheostat housing (illuminated reticule).  That's my idea of a good scope for this rifle.  My 5R will wear a Vortex PST (someday)... 

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