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shot pattern problem |
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spinner08 ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() ![]() Joined: September/19/2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: October/16/2009 at 09:41 |
I just bought a swfa ss 10X42 riflescope and I am having trouble with my shot pattern a 3 shot group at 100 yards is about 6 inches from one shot to another. I have talley rings and base on a winchester model 70 300 win mag any suggestions on how to tighten my grouping and how can you tell if the scope is malfunctioning eventhough I just put it on yesterday
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Rancid Coolaid ![]() Optics Jedi Master ![]() ![]() Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8750 |
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Did you shoot the gun prior to mounting the SS? What groups did it print before?
If it is a brand new gun, did you break in the barrel? Have you tried multiple kinds of ammo, different bullets at different velocities? Are you certain the scope mounts are secure and torqued properly. What is your trigger break? Do you "flinch" in anticipation of the gun going off? A 300WM can be a kicker, it might just be that you tense or flinch, or it could be something else. Answering the questions above will be a start towards helping. |
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Terry Lamb ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() ![]() Joined: January/19/2009 Location: Sagle, Idaho Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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I had a similar problem with a Leupold 4x, but was totally remedied after reading John Barsness' article on scope mounting in the Dec 2008 American Rifleman. My problem was proper screw tightening torque on the rings. Too tight or too loose can each cause odd behavioral problems with the scope.
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Terry Lamb
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spinner08 ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() ![]() Joined: September/19/2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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I have had the gun for about 2 years and I got it used. The prior groups were less than an inch. I have only used the 150 grain hornady sst but that is what I have always shot. I think that I have the mounts secure I made sure they were tight before shooting. I sight my guns in with a lead sled so it is kind of hard to be off that far and I know I dont flinch because I havent had any trouble in the past with that gun
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8shots ![]() Optics Jedi Knight ![]() ![]() Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6060 |
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This will be a process of elimination so a few questions will have to be answered.
What mounts do you have?
I have seen alloy mounts bend/shift with Win 300 recoil. This then shows as unexplained shotgun pattern.
If they are steel mounts, then check for loose screws.
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spinner08 ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() ![]() Joined: September/19/2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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my mounts shouldnt be bent already they are as new as the scope
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8shots ![]() Optics Jedi Knight ![]() ![]() Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6060 |
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If they are alloy mounts the very first shot with a 300Win can bend them. The next shot again and so on, hence the shift in impact. They only need to bent 2 thou of an inch.
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spinner08 ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() ![]() Joined: September/19/2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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I have the talley light weight scope mounts I dont know what they are made of it dosent say
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supertool73 ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Online Points: 11055 |
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I have Talleys on my 45-70 and only shoot very hot loads out of it. Mine have never given me a problem by bending, they are very well built. I am certain they have been used on lots harder kickers than a 45-70 or .300.
Did you torque them properly or just tighten them? They only need 15 to 18 inlbs of torque, that is not very much. You can typically do that with a nutdriver and your thumb and forefinger. That is on both mounting it to your action and the ring caps. If you have them to tight it can really screw things up and even ruin the scope. If it is to loose you should see movement in the scope sliding. |
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supertool73 ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Online Points: 11055 |
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Once you eliminate any mount problems, then if it is still there I would put the scope on another proven rifle if possible and try it as well. That will help you eliminate if it is a scope problem or not.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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8shots ![]() Optics Jedi Knight ![]() ![]() Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6060 |
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The construction of the Talley Lightweight Mount is unique. The rigid design has no joint between the scope and rifle. The Talley Lightweight unitized design eliminates the possibility of an "out of alignment" interface or "loose connection" between the ring and base of traditional two-piece design. CNC machined from 7000 series aluminum, known for its strength and durability. Material: Aluminum Sorry, but I would say that your mounts are not strong enough to handle the recoil. Edited by 8shots - October/16/2009 at 10:31 |
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spinner08 ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() ![]() Joined: September/19/2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Does talley have any mounts made out of steel
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supertool73 ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Online Points: 11055 |
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A quote from John Barnsness. http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=15632&KW=Talley&PID=177600#177600
Based on Johns input and my personal experience with the Talleys I would say your talleys are just fine. Edited by supertool73 - October/16/2009 at 10:57 |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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8shots ![]() Optics Jedi Knight ![]() ![]() Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6060 |
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I have never used them, but their bases are of steel. The fixed rings also seems stronger then the lightweight:
Using larger screws and no moving parts, this system is as rigid as it looks.Utilizing the same double recoil shoulder base as the detachable rings, the fixed ring system will also stand up to the most brutal of magnum cartridges. |
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8shots ![]() Optics Jedi Knight ![]() ![]() Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6060 |
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If it is not the rings, then either the screws are loose, or the scope is faulty.
Not to disagree, but simply to eliminate one of the variables, try to borrow steel rings and try those.
I again have personal experience of aluminum rings not being able to withstand magnum recoil.
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supertool73 ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Online Points: 11055 |
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If it does end up being the rings causing your problems, Warne also make very strong rings and they are steel. While i personally have only have them on a .357 mag rifle and an AR, they seem very very strong.
http://swfa.com/Warne-Maxima-Permanent-Attach-1-Rings-C2378.aspx http://swfa.com/Remington-C2357.aspx |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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Dale Clifford ![]() Optics Jedi Knight ![]() Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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jeez, thought this post was going to be on shotguns.
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RONK ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() ![]() Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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I think Talley uses grades of aluminum that are probably stronger than most steels. They aren't your average box store pot metal junk. I doubt they bent under recoil, but I do think there's a strong possibility that they are too tight and may have stressed or even damaged the tube, as others have suggested. Loosen them, look for ring marks on thre tube and re-tighten to torque specs and try again
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Jon A ![]() Optics Journeyman ![]() ![]() Joined: March/14/2008 Location: Everett, WA Status: Offline Points: 670 |
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The Talley mounts are plenty strong. If the receiver of the rifle isn't true, holes aren't drilled straight, etc, this could cause a misalignment between them that may pinch the scope or prevent the rings from tightening properly. That (along with other simple mounting errors) is what I'd look for first.
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RONK ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() ![]() Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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True, especially with ringmounts in which the "base" IS the bottom half of the ring.
With those, there is absolutely no margin for error when the rifle receiver is out of true or the mounting holes mis-drilled.
With a separate Ring/Base arrangement, at least there is a tiny amount of correction to be made between the ring and the base, to offset that condition, in most cases. It isn't much, but is probably enough to prevent some problems.
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spinner08 ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() ![]() Joined: September/19/2009 Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Its shooting true now Im holding a sub-one inch group again. I looosened the rings and changed ammo and it is shooting fine now. Thanks for all of your help I appreciate it.
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8shots ![]() Optics Jedi Knight ![]() ![]() Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6060 |
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Dammit, I hate being wrong!!!
Glad you got your problem sorted the easy way.
Apologies Supertool for doubting you!!!!
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