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Selecting a new tactical scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2007 at 20:08
mrlullabye View Drop Down
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I am not a LE or armed forces sniper, but I like the way they shoot.  So I am potentially in the market for a new scope.  Currently I have a Barska swat that is pretty accurate, but it is 1/8 moa adjustable and not quite as repeatable as I would like when you make adjustments.  So I am looking into getting a new scope.  As much as I hate to lose my variable power I am considering a fixed power scope with the hopes that it will be affordable, durable, and repeatable.  So here is what I want.

 

Repeatable adjustments

1/2 moa clicks

fixed 10 power or adjustable maybe 4-16 or 6-20

Decent sized objective 40-50mm

mil-dot reticle

a lot of total adjustment

 

I have considered the bushnell 3200 in fixed 10x as well as the SS and I like both of them, but I would prefer 1/2 moa clicks.  I would also prefer a zero stop, but if that proves to be cost prohibitive I can do without it.  I want to spend between $200 and $500 is possible closer to the first number.  Can anyone think of a good scope in this range with the features?  would anyone argue that the 1/2 moa clicks or the zero stop is not a good idea?

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2007 at 20:58
PatriotsWrath View Drop Down
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Near as I can tell you identified both of the options you have.

 

 

The Elite 3200 10x

 

or the

 

Super Sniper 10x

 

You may have to give on the 1/2 clicks.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2007 at 21:07
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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You could buy a a used IOR 2.5-10X40 something and get the 1/2 moa adjustment but then you'd have a used IOR...........................................
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2007 at 22:18
mrlullabye View Drop Down
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How important do you guys think the 1/2 MOA clicks are?

 

I know that from a spreadsheet view the 1/4 moa has an advantage of being more precise, but I look at it like 1/2 MOA is roughly 5.5 inches at 1000 yards so assuming my bullet was laser straight I would be able to dial it in to within about 2.7 inches.  For some reason my mind sort of doubts that logic, but the other part of me says that has to be how it works.  For instance if you were 4.4 inches to the left at 1000 yards then one click to the right and you would be 1.1" from center.  So the worse you could be is 2.7" off because then a single click would move you 2.7 inches in another direction putting you equally far from center.

 

So if my logic is right there that is about 1.5" from center at 600 yards.  Not bad in my book.  I think that is close enough for anything I would want to deliver a 155gr BTHP to at 600 yards.  I know that more precision is never a bad thing, but I think the 1/2 clicks will probably be more repeatable then 1/4 clicks not to mention fewer turns on the drum.

 

Also I should add has anyone here owned both the bushnell elite 3200 10x and the SS 10X?  If so I would love to hear the comparison.

 

What about the zero stop.  How imporant is that and how do you set it?



Edited by mrlullabye
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2007 at 06:32
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Ask yourself this question;  Do I shoot long range frequently enough to be able to hold and judge the difference between 1/4 and 1/2 moa at 1000 yards?

 

Probably not.  1/4 moa will work just fine.

 

There is NO comparison that can be made between the 3200 and the SuperSniper once we agree that both have glass to look through

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2007 at 13:25
mrlullabye View Drop Down
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So are you saying the SS is far better then the 3200?

 

I am not a professional shooter, but most of this rifles shots if not all are long range.  This is not a hunting gun it is a 200 yard plus target gun.  I want to get into more tactical type matches as well as 600 and 1000 yard competition.  I'm not a big timer in the sport, but that is what I do with the rifle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2007 at 18:36
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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The SS is so far ahead of the 3200 scope there's no need to list the diffences.

The SS is a designed unit, the 3200 is a look alike at best.

 

If you dial the same 5,000 firing solutions into both scopes the SS will be ready for 5001.

The Bushnell will be in the shop. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2007 at 18:43
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THATS IT IN A NUTSHELL, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD MIKE
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2007 at 19:46
mrlullabye View Drop Down
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I like reliable.  I do with it had the 1/2 click and zero stop, but those might just be something I have to do without.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2007 at 20:52
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Concur on the 3200 10x being inferior to the SS on all counts (but it's $100 cheaper...no surprise there).  I do not like 1/4 Moa clicks for similar logic....however my secondary stick has the SS on it and I just do the mental math, plus I find as long as I'm not in low light (which is never) I can adjust to the full MOA hashmarks without breaking my spotweld...in short, 1/4 is a small price to pay for a scope the quality of the SS at a one-of-a-kind bargain price....I recommend it to anyone who asks and if you hit the lottery you can always move it to a second rifle and go more highend when your ship comes in.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2007 at 20:28
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For your price range the SS 10x is the clear choice.

 

If you want to get into the snipers comps none of the optics you listed would be good choice.

 

Here is what you need to look for:

variable power (3x18 is a good medium power range)

1/2 moa or 1/4 moa knob adjustments

Zero stop on the elevation knob

Front Focal Plane reticle

Optics reticle measurement must match knobs (ie moa/moa not moa knob & mil/metric reticle)

Illuminated reticles are a good idea - personally I dont like them and dont use them

42 to 50mm objective lense

30mm or larger maintube

 

Expect to drop some coin for it. I spent almost as much on my optic as I did on my rifle.

 

There is an excellent thread dealing with this very subject on Snipers Hide that I seriously encourge you to read. Its optics for practical long range rifle shooting by Zak Smith. Here is a link to it:

 

http://www.snipershide.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic; f=19;t=003150

 

I just got my equip together to hit a few of the comps this summer. Mabey I will see you at one, I'll be the confused looking guy in the LTM shirt.

 

Joe

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 03:54
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by dilligaf dilligaf wrote:

I'll be the confused looking guy in the LTM shirt.

 

Joe

 

 

I HIGHLY doubt that..........

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 12:19
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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  Optics reticle measurement must match knobs

 

I just have to ask................why?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 13:44
dilligaf View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

  Optics reticle measurement must match knobs

 

I just have to ask................why?

 

They dont have to be the same but unless you want to do metric/mil's to standard conversion calculations, under stress, in your head its highly recommended that they match. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 16:53
mrlullabye View Drop Down
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Hey what is a good way to find tactical competitions?  I only know of one tactical competition and it may or may not recur this year.  I am a member of a club that has several 600 and 1000 yard matches a year, but I really like the tactical style shooting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 18:29
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Storm Mountain

Badlands

TacPro

Rifles Only

 

there are more but the names escape me.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 19:11
dilligaf View Drop Down
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Snipers Hide & Snipers Paradise fourms have a list of the upcomming comps.

 

Dont forget smack the smiley!!!!!!! Its a real cool contest that can be done at any range, here is a link to its site:

 

http://www.smackthesmiley.com



Edited by dilligaf
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 23:33
mrlullabye View Drop Down
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I am more or less sold on the super sniper brand.  I do wish it had the zero stop and 1/2 clicks, but I do not see any other scope with those features for less then twice the price of the super sniper.  I did look at the burris Xtreme Tactical in 6-24 which has 1moa elevation and .5 moa windage adjustments.  Does anyone think it is worth spending over twice as much for the burris just for the click difference?

 

Also if I go with the super sniper I am a little torn on the magnification I should go with.  I have shot 600 and plan on shooting 1000 yard this year.  Would you go 10 16 or 20?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2007 at 11:26
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I would not go 1MOA, stick to .5MOA(MOA reticle preffered) or 1CM, 1CM preffered with a Mil-dot or gen II type reticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2007 at 21:43
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10x will work fine for 1000 yds. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2007 at 07:13
mrlullabye View Drop Down
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ok yet another question.

 

Does the SS come with push pull lockable rings?  If not are they really anything I would miss? 

 

I like the idea of being able to lock them for when you travel.  I know you can just reset them for zero and all, I'm just curious

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2007 at 23:04
mrlullabye View Drop Down
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I have been stepping up my search for the right scope.  In a lot of ways I like everything about the SS.  Including the price.  A friend of mine has really been working on me to stick with a more proven name brand.  He has over 30 years of benchrest shooting experience so I have to believe he knows what he is talking about.  At the same time I can only justify spending so much money on a scope and it is really going against my grain to consider more, but I have opened my budget up a bit more.  So I was going to run a couple of scopes past you guys and I will put it like this.  If money was not an option which of these scopes would you get?  Also think if all of your bills were paid and you had enough cash to afford any of them, but you still had other financial duties which one would you go for.  Prices are approximate.

 

Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope 790
Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 PR 30mm Riflescope 700
Super Sniper 10x42 30mm Rifle Scope 
300
Burris 3-12x50 Xtreme Tactical XTR 30mm Rifle Scope 630
Burris 6-24x50 Xtreme Tactical XTR 30mm Rifle Scope 770

 

They all have 1/4 clicks except for the 6-24 XTR which is 1 elevation and .5 windage. I like the idea of being able to dial into 1000 yards with a single turn of the knob, but 1 moa clicks does seem like a lot to me.  At least the windage is 1/2.  If I had my druthers I think I would want 1/2 W and 1/2 E.  Also realize this is going on a more or less stock howa heavy barrel 308.  This is a $500 gun.  I do have a 20MOA base already, and I really liked the FullfieldII tactical in 4-14x but I think it only having 40MOA of total adjustment would put it out of the running for me.  My barska currently has 40 or 50 total MOA and I can barelly get to a 100 yard zero with it.

 

I really appreciate any input you guys give me I am having a hard time making this decision.  I may also buy a better rifle in the future and I think if I get a cheaper scope now I could always replace it when I get a bette rifle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2007 at 23:18
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Lots of Super Snipers on the SWFA sample list www.samplelist.com
$250 and $350. If you're looking at the Burris and Leupold 6-20s, check out the Nikon Monarch sale on the 6.5-20 from SWFA. I have a Leupold & the Monarch and can't see any difference.Several of us have had problems with Burris service whereas Leupold is (in my opinion) the industry standard regardless of how much you spend or how old it is. Also check out Ebay as there are 100s of used scopes on it.
I just bought a 40 year old Unertl Vulture IA 10X on there ANIB $400 and it can hold it's own against most of today's scopes. (Of course it is a Unertl!) They were tactical before there was tactical.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2007 at 01:04
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Originally posted by mrlullabye mrlullabye wrote:

I have been stepping up my search for the right scope.  In a lot of ways I like everything about the SS.  Including the price.  A friend of mine has really been working on me to stick with a more proven name brand.  He has over 30 years of benchrest shooting experience so I have to believe he knows what he is talking about. 

 

More proven than the Super Sniper???

Could you elaborate on that?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2007 at 06:06
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I think your friend shouldn't knock the SS until he's used one extensively....some people are prejudiced about the old days where people referred to it as the "Tasco Super Sniper"......I remember seeing a post on here a long time ago where Chris explained the history of the SS but my opinion is double the asking price of the SS wouldn't be unreasonable (but then it wouldn't be the bargain it is). 
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