New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Seeing bullet holes
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Seeing bullet holes

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 08:04
Waskawood1 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: January/12/2009
Location: Starbuck MN
Status: Offline
Points: 15
My main mission with buying a new spotter is seeing 6mm holes at 600 yards. Size and weight are mo concern. I was about ready to purchase a 80mm Pentax with an SMC eyepiece based on what I have read on this forum. My question is, would I be better off buying better glass in a 65mm size instead of poorer glass in 80mm? Does light gathering or glass quality improve my chances of seeing holes? Thanks again for any help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 09:27
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 16076
Seeing 6mm bullit holes at 600yds is a tall order for any spotter except under ideal atmospheric conditions. I don't think going down in objective size with better glass from the Pentax is going to give you much of an improvement if any, but I could be wrong (I'm not an expert, or a current pert, but I am a pre-pert).
You may consider saving a little more money and go with the Vortex Razor spotter. From the reviews I've read, it's as close as you can get to the alpha scopes without the expense. You still have the 80mm objective for the brighter image and the contrast to pick up those bullit holes.
I have the Pentax and on a hot, sunny, slightly humid day I was able to see 30 cal. holes at 300yds, but I missed a few that were up in the logo of the target. Maybe if I had looked harder I would have seen them, but who knows now. On that day I don't know if I could have seen any bullit hole at 600yds. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 09:34
Waskawood1 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: January/12/2009
Location: Starbuck MN
Status: Offline
Points: 15
I understand I will not be able to see them all the time. Our league shoot is early in the morning and the guys with 42-50 power scopes say they see their holes at times. I was prepared to spend the money on a Pentax PF-80 so that brought up the question of spending the same amount on a 65mm spotter with better glass. I appreciate your input.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 09:37
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7698
Bullet holes at 600 yards, not gonna happen with the Pentax. 

Choot-n-C targets will give you a slightly higher probability of seeing the shot, but 600 yards is a long way out, and - without spending a vast sum of money - probably beyond visual range for any but the absolute best spotters on the market. (And, even with the absolute best, if the circumstances ain't perfect, even the best aren't good enough.)

Shoot with someone capable of spotting a vapor trail and watch the round in that fashion.  And do what we do beyond 500 yards: put up larger targets, fire a group, drive out and mark, dope change accordingly.

And buy a good wind meter.  I recommend the Kestrel 4500.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 09:38
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7698
At 45X they see 6mm holes?  What scopes are they using?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 11:06
Waskawood1 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: January/12/2009
Location: Starbuck MN
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

At 45X they see 6mm holes?  What scopes are they using?
Night Force and 50X Sightron.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 11:09
Waskawood1 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: January/12/2009
Location: Starbuck MN
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Bullet holes at 600 yards, not gonna happen with the Pentax.  

Shoot with someone capable of spotting a vapor trail and watch the round in that fashion.  And do what we do beyond 500 yards: put up larger targets, fire a group, drive out and mark, dope change accordingly.

And buy a good wind meter.  I recommend the Kestrel 4500.
They do give us clay pigeons to sight in on before we move to the "official 600 yard"
target. If a spotter can't do it, it can't. I just needed to get more info before sending chris more money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 14:46
JGRaider View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: February/06/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1431
Any spotter with premium glass, i.e NikonFieldscope, Pentax ED, Swaro Zeiss, Kowa, Razor, etc in 80-88mm obj size will show you more detail than the exact same spotters with 60-65mm glass every time, period.  You can't change physics.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 15:29
Waskawood1 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: January/12/2009
Location: Starbuck MN
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Any spotter with premium glass, i.e NikonFieldscope, Pentax ED, Swaro Zeiss, Kowa, Razor, etc in 80-88mm obj size will show you more detail than the exact same spotters with 60-65mm glass every time, period.  You can't change physics.  
I guess I am not being clear. I understand the above statement and believe it to be true. My question is, what would work better in my situation. Good glass (pentax or what have you) in 80mm or premium (Swarvo, Zeiss, Leica, or what have you) in 65mm.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2010 at 17:33
stickbow46 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/07/2009
Location: Benton, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 4673
I beleive the Alpha glass will give you better resolution & clarity but the larger object will allow you better detail as noted by JGRider.Best if you could get to a range that sponsers 600yrd shoots,I'm sure most of the shooters would be willing to let you have a look threw there scopes! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2010 at 16:40
Blackbird View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: February/10/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 279
Not to steal your thread, but, I have the Pentax PF-80ED with the 20-60X zoom eyepiece, and I can see 6mm bullet holes "in the white", on occasion at 500 yards. My question is, would I gain more clarity/resolution if I were to go with a fixed eyepiece such as the XW-10, which would be 50X,
 
or
 
the XW-14, which would be 36X,
 
or
 
the XW-20, which would be 26X.
 
Can any of you spotting scope gurus recommend the best eyepiece magnification (of the 3 above mentioned) for 500-1200 yard viewing, calling hits on live ground-hogs, and seeing holes in white paper targets at these ranges ?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2010 at 11:33
flatcooky View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: September/02/2010
Location: puget sound
Status: Offline
Points: 11
 Not a guru, but I do have the 10x eyepiece on the PF-80ED, I find that the image is slightly better that the zoom eyepiece at equal power.
 Weather condition being perfect I can spot 6.5mm holes at our 550yrd range in the white. Brown corrugated cardboard is also a contract.
 Believe it or not the zoom eyepiece is quite excellent in all its power ranges as you know. Buying a 10x will not improve the clarity and or resolution by the margin you are spending for it, $300. But if it's critical that you spot at 500 yards accurately, I'd say go for it. It's truly a nice hunk of glass.
 I considered getting the 7x, but at that magnification you're exit pupil is severely diminished and with the 10x light is quickly stolen closer to dusk than at lower powers.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2010 at 12:12
flatcooky View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: September/02/2010
Location: puget sound
Status: Offline
Points: 11
Brown corrugated cardboard is also a good contrast..... couldn't find the edit feature....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2010 at 12:17
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 18340
You guys are SO negative and this is SOOO easy...
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2010 at 14:14
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4613
I was at the range Friday morning and it only hit 65 degrees. Yet there was noticeable mirage visible in the two spotters I had access to. One was my POS $70 refurb Bushnell @ 36X and the other was Bushnell as well, one of those models around $350-400 with better glass and @ 45X. The latter was better, as you would expect, but I found I could almost do as well with the much superior glass in my Premier Heritage set @ 15X.

So I'd be inclined to say get the best glass you can afford, even if it means a smaller objective (and a slight loss of resolution because of the physical size). But nothing can overcome dust and mirage.
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Seeing bullet holes"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
scirocco bullets key holing oldfool5 Reloading & Ballistics 12
Bullet holes visible at 300yds? 8shots Target 29 9/19/2007 5:25:36 PM
Last hole in the SWFA line FireEMT5 Tactical Scopes 49
Neck dies & flash hole deburr Gil P. Reloading & Ballistics 31
Black Hole Weaponry AR15 in 6X68 budperm Firearms 9
peep hole hydra7 Bows 6
Black Hole Weaponry CS jonoMT Firearms 2
How big is the hole? harveyspecter Firearms 3
Best Bullet placement to take down Black bear erinis0112 General Hunting 47
Scope for 600 yards - .30 cal holes jonoMT Spotting Scopes 2


This page was generated in 0.281 seconds.