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'scout' scopes on old milsurp rifles

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 11:24
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Hi-

I have a few old milsurps that I would like to put scout mounts & scopes on.  I would use the s&k 'no gun-smithing' mounts so as not to permanently do anything to the rifles.

Rifles in question:  mauser 98k, mosin M38 and mosin M44. 
These rifles were not expensive at all... so I would hesitate to put scopes on them that cost close to $300.

I don't know a lot about scopes, but I'm assuming that "pistol" scopes would not have the correct eye relief for a scout-mount setup (I suppose 9" to 12" or whatever).  I know that Leupold has a couple FX-2 scout models, Burris may have a couple, and I believe Nikon has one.

I was wondering if there are any others, especially cheaper ones, available?

I'm mostly interested in doing this due to my old eyes, that can't get the open sights in focus at all.

Thanks for any tips.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 12:10
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Originally posted by Trajan Trajan wrote:

Hi-

I have a few old milsurps that I would like to put scout mounts & scopes on.  I would use the s&k 'no gun-smithing' mounts so as not to permanently do anything to the rifles.

Rifles in question:  mauser 98k, mosin M38 and mosin M44. 
These rifles were not expensive at all... so I would hesitate to put scopes on them that cost close to $300.

I don't know a lot about scopes, but I'm assuming that "pistol" scopes would not have the correct eye relief for a scout-mount setup (I suppose 9" to 12" or whatever).  I know that Leupold has a couple FX-2 scout models, Burris may have a couple, and I believe Nikon has one.

I was wondering if there are any others, especially cheaper ones, available?

I'm mostly interested in doing this due to my old eyes, that can't get the open sights in focus at all.

Thanks for any tips.
....................................There are some fixed pistol scopes from Burris and Nikon   in the 1x and 2x range that will work. Eye relief from say 4" to well over 20".........However, the two most popular fixed power scout scopes are the Leupold 2.5x and the Burris 2.75x20. Those two are specifically designed to be used as scout scopes. But there is another that I believe is better, that offers more versatility by doubling not only as a scout scope but as a pistol scope as well. That is the Nikon Monarch 2.5-8x28 UCC, EER!..................Please go to,,,,shootingtimes.com,,,,click on optics. From there scroll down to an article by Dick Metcalf entitled "Dual Purpose Optics from Nikon" in which he discusses this particular Nikon scope and why it can be used for either pistol or scout purposes! You will still have quick target acquisition with both eyes open on the low end and precise longer range shooting on the higher end if needed. As the magnifications change, eye relief corrections for best possible FOV`s are made quickly with the quick-focus eye piece! That article is a very good read!..................This particular Nikon sits on my Ruger Frontier 300 WSM compact (also referred to in that article), which is an excellent long range shooter. I also use a conventionally mounted scope for the same rifle and switch back and forth! The advantage is, that I am not limited to only 2.5x or 2.75x that the other scout scopes offer!............The Nikon has excellent glass with 95% light transmission, is very bright and clear! The only small dis-advantage I see, if you could call it that, is that it weighs about 4 oz. more than either the Burris or Leupold scouts..............BTW, I will order another 2.5-8 Nikon (for my revolver), just as soon as SWFA has them in stock! ANYTIME NOW BOYS??........Sale price is $189.95. Always sold for $289.95 in the past and is currently listed on all other sites at $289.95!! That`s a great price at $189....................
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 14:47
GeoJAP View Drop Down
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I have a Weaver LER 4x32 scope on my Finnish M39 Mosin Nagant.  It works very well.  I used the Darrel's Scout Mount (a forum member at Parralax's Collector's forum) for the Mosin Nagant, and it's a great base. 

It's pretty damn accurate for a milsurp, as most Finnish M39s are.  I can get 1.5" groups at 100 yards with 50 year old surplus ammo pretty easily.

I can take pics of the rifle and post them later today or tomorrow if you like.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 16:50
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GeoJap -pics would be great. 
I didn't know weaver made one, thanks for the tip.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 16:58
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Just about every manufacturer makes Long Eye Relief or handgun scopes.  I chose weaver because it was a decent scope at a very decent price.  It was only $150. 

Getting a good base is important.  I have heard good things about the S&K but have never used one.  I used a B-Square base on a 98 Mauser and it worked well.  My favorite between the two is the Darrell's model.  Last I checked, which was a few months ago, I think he had some in stock for the Mosin.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 09:39
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 I used to spend quite a bit of time on the C&R forums, not much lately though.  The Darrells bases were discussed regularly, and I NEVER heard a single complaint about them. He is very highly respected for the quality of his work and customer service.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 11:57
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I never thought to look at handgun scopes, since I thought the ER would not be correct for a scout set-up on a rifle.

I also know that parallax is set at 50yds on handgun scopes... will that be a problem for shooting rifles at 100 & 200yds?  Probably not very much I would guess.

I assume Leapers and the like are not recommended here at OT...?  Don't forget, we are talking about beat-up old milsurps here, not precision, sub-MOA rifles.

I can't find any local dealers who stock scout scopes, so I'm not able to handle them, or look through them and play around with the eye relief.
I may check the local dealers for what handgun scopes they stock.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 12:22
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Originally posted by Trajan Trajan wrote:

I never thought to look at handgun scopes, since I thought the ER would not be correct for a scout set-up on a rifle.

I also know that parallax is set at 50yds on handgun scopes... will that be a problem for shooting rifles at 100 & 200yds?  Probably not very much I would guess.

I assume Leapers and the like are not recommended here at OT...?  Don't forget, we are talking about beat-up old milsurps here, not precision, sub-MOA rifles.

I can't find any local dealers who stock scout scopes, so I'm not able to handle them, or look through them and play around with the eye relief.
I may check the local dealers for what handgun scopes they stock.

........................The parallax setting on the Nikon Monarch UCC 2.5-8x28 that I mentioned earlier is 100 yards! Not a problem out to 300 or 400 yards! However, a 50 yard parallax would be problem IMO at 200 yards...................Based on that article alone that I mentioned earlier to you, now on the Shooting Times web site, I bought that Nikon without seeing and handling it first and paid $289!..........Now at $189, that is one helluva deal! The Burris scout is just over $200 and the Leupy scout is $279! You get alot more with that Nikon!............I have my backorder in with SWFA for another! Remember, the secret to the Nikon for proper eye relief in all magnifications is in the fast focus eye-piece!...............A cheaper scope would also be the Leatherwood scout. If I`m not mistaken it sells for about $150....You might as well step up to that Nikon for $189 and get on the backorder list!........Leaper scopes are cheaper and you do get what you pay for!! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 13:56
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Here is my B-Barrel Finn M39 Mosin Nagant.  The pics are a little big, so it helps if you have your monitor set to at least 1600x1200 resolution.

http://www.codemonkeyx.com/images/m39_1.jpg
http://www.codemonkeyx.com/images/m39_2.jpg

I used to have a C&R license so I used to have quite a few C&Rs, having bought quite a few when they were really cheap from 1999-2003 or so.  I sold them all except for my Swedish M96 Mausers, M1 Garands and a 1903A3 Springfield.  I have put scout scopes on this M39 and a Persian Brno 98/29 Mauser.  I used the B-square mount on the Persian Mauser and it seemed to function well, but it sat a little high and wasn't my favorite scout base.  Of the two I've tried, I really like this Darrell's mount best. 

I have been very happy with this Finn M39, Darrell's mount and the Weaver scope.  Granted, the Weaver scope is not as high dollar or quality as some other scopes.  But in order to keep things in perspective, this rifle only cost me $130 or so.  It was an unissued B-Barrel M39 from gunsnammo.com that had a cracked stock, so they were unloading it for like $105 about 6 years ago.  I bought a replacement stock for it for $25.  It doesn't have much collectors value since it is not the original stock, but it shoots lights out for a milsurp.  I could not justify putting a $250+ scope on this rifle, and the Weaver has worked just fine for 100 yard target shooting for almost 6 years now.  When I want to do some serious shooting, I'll pull out my FN PBR XP for which I just bought an IOR Valdada 2-5x10-42 tactical scope. 

I looked it up, and the scope mounted on the M39 is a Weaver Classic Pistol Scope 4x28mm. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 15:18
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The new Weaver pistol scopes can work! But double check the eye relief specs first! How much distance from the scopes ocular bell to your eye ball will you have???........The Classic 4x eye relief specs show 12" to 18"..........I don`t think that there is a quick focus eye piece to compensate for lack of FOV on that Weaver!!..........Be careful there!!...........Maybe the older Weavers were different! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 15:22
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Big Squeeze - yes, I did come across that Nikon in my searching for scout scopes... before I ever posted here.  I agree, for the features you get, and it being a "Monarch", it seems to be a great price.

Geo - thanks for the pics, it looks good.  I like the scope, since it is just a "plain, black scope" and not all colorful and with fancy writing all over it. I prefer the simple and plain look when on old milsurps.

What reticles are good for a scout set-up?  No choices for the most part, however, with Leupold I could maybe substitute a diff reticle for an extra $50+.  I'm partial to the German #4.  I don't like the "heavy" duplex type.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 15:44
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Originally posted by Trajan Trajan wrote:

Big Squeeze - yes, I did come across that Nikon in my searching for scout scopes... before I ever posted here.  I agree, for the features you get, and it being a "Monarch", it seems to be a great price.

Geo - thanks for the pics, it looks good.  I like the scope, since it is just a "plain, black scope" and not all colorful and with fancy writing all over it. I prefer the simple and plain look when on old milsurps.

What reticles are good for a scout set-up?  No choices for the most part, however, with Leupold I could maybe substitute a diff reticle for an extra $50+.  I'm partial to the German #4.  I don't like the "heavy" duplex type.
...........................I don`t think you will find any scouts in the #4 reticle!  A nikoplex, duplex should be good as a scout reticle!...............If you do go with Weaver, make certain of that eye relief first!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 16:17
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I notice at competitor.com, that they have the option of customizing the Leupold Scouts.  I could get any reticle I want.  However, at $279 +59 for the reticle change, we are talking about more than I want to spend.

http://www.competitor.net/custom-leupold-25x28mm-m8-ier-scout-rifle-scope.html

I'll look into the ones discussed in this thread.. the nikon, the leupolds, and the weavers. 
I'll probably buy the s&k mount first, for my M38.  Have the choice between s&k style rings, or regular rings.  Will try the s&k style first I guess, they look good.

After I get some experience with a first set-up, I'll know more for the next time.  I got my son the M44, and he wants a scout set-up on his too. Then I have the k98. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 16:24
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Originally posted by Trajan Trajan wrote:

I notice at competitor.com, that they have the option of customizing the Leupold Scouts.  I could get any reticle I want.  However, at $279 +59 for the reticle change, we are talking about more than I want to spend.

http://www.competitor.net/custom-leupold-25x28mm-m8-ier-scout-rifle-scope.html

I'll look into the ones discussed in this thread.. the nikon, the leupolds, and the weavers. 
I'll probably buy the s&k mount first, for my M38.  Have the choice between s&k style rings, or regular rings.  Will try the s&k style first I guess, they look good.

After I get some experience with a first set-up, I'll know more for the next time.  I got my son the M44, and he wants a scout set-up on his too. Then I have the k98. 
................................The Leupy is an option even though it costs more! Bucks for bucks though, I`ll still go with the Nikon Monarch!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 16:40
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sorry about the "competitor" thing.  I wasn't thinking.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2008 at 16:53
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hmmm... can't edit my posts.

Anyway, before when I said I liked the german #4, maybe I meant the german #1.  My swedish M41B sniper scope has a post on the bottom going up to a point, and two posts coming in from the sides... but no crosshairs.  I can shoot way better with that rifle than any other rifle I own.

Not really important, I just wanted to clarify.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 00:54
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I've often wanted one of those Swedish M41b's.  I know Samco is still shipping them out.  What is that woman's name down there, Abda? 

How does your rifle it shoot for you?  When did you order it from them?  That is about the only milsurp I'm still in the market for.

I have heard the glass on those Ajax scopes is very nice.  I have a couple of nice Swede M96s and over 1000 rounds of Federal 6.5x55 ammo that I can reload the brass once it is fired, so I'm thinking in that direction....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 01:12
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Keep in mind that with a lot of scout mounts for milsurp rifles a scout scope like the Leupold or Burris ones might have too short of an eye relief.  I have used Darrel's scout mount on a K31 and a couple of Mosin variants and I think your best bet is one of many excellent 2x pistol scopes out there.  They tend to have the most flexible eye relief and with old military rifles that is an important advantage, since the rear sight base is in a spot that is a little further from your eye than the base on modern scout rifles.

I recall having good luck with Bushnell Trophy 2x32 scope, Swift 2x20 and a couple of more expensive scopes of similar configuration.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 07:25
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Geo- ordered the M41B from Samco Feb. 2007.  Took 3 months for it to come to my dealer.  Cost $1295... ouch !

However, it is by far my favorite milsurp.  I can shoot better with it than with any other of my rifles.  The 6.5 caliber is great too.

The scope is kind of a pain to adjust, but I finally got it pretty close.

thanks koshkin.  I'll try to figure out approx eye relief I'll need for my diff rifles, based on where the rear sight is... Yeah, some milsurps have the rear sight fairly far forward, you're right.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 07:27
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edit:  My dealer wasn't too happy dealing with samco... Yeah the woman is something with an A... but can't remember.  My dealer ended up with the opinion "I'm never ordering from these people again...".  Ha ha... but at least I got it finally.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2008 at 18:08
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gonna resurrect this old thread... still haven't got a scout scope yet.

Been looking at (on the web) Leatherwood scopes.  They have a few LER models.  What's the OT opinion of Leatherwood?  I've known the name for a while... but I always thought they were "cheapo" scopes, like Leapers, et al.

However, according to the scope rating thread, they are decent.

I'm still looking at the Nikon that Big Squeeze recommended, and also pistol scopes as koshkin suggested.  Just wondering about Leatherwood.  Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2008 at 18:28
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I've never seen Leatherwood's LER scopes, but their regular scopes were underwhelming.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2008 at 18:30
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      Grenade                                     Fourth of July at Squeezer's house  ........................Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2008 at 01:25
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Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

      Grenade                                     Fourth of July at Squeezer's house  ........................Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing
..........................Goodnight Mr. Ed!! Horse%20Poop......Your barn needs to be shoveled! It`s gettin knee deep! ........LaughNa%20Na 
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