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Scout scope for long range?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2006 at 12:22
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Optics GrassHopper
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I've got a Finnish Mosin-Nagant M39 that I would like to scope for long-range shooting, but with its hexagonal receiver, the only mounting system I can find is a scout arrangement that replaces the rear sight leaf.  I would like to be able to shoot at ranges of 500 to 800 meters.  What are some options I should consider?  I was thinking that the Burris 3-12x32 LER handgun scope might be the way to go, but I would like to hear from others.  Am I trying to do too much with a scout set-up?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/12/2006 at 14:46
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If you can see it you can hit it, even with iron sights. the real question is what size target and what % of hits will be acceptable. Sounds fun to me- but the first thing I would check out is how secure the mount is. Does it have some type of bolt down, or is it simply a tension device?  I use a 2x scout scope on a 270 for 5 gallon cans to  500 yds shot all the time- but 800 is a lot of fudge factor.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2006 at 07:26
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I really haven't thought about what percentage of hits versus misses will be acceptable.  You mean scopes don't guarantee 100% hits???   I've done a lot of reading on the Internet about the three types of scout mounts available for this rifle, and only one has 100% excellent reviews, so I'm sure it's plenty solid.  I was thinking about a Bushnell pistol scope but read that they're unworkable at higher magnification.  I read a review about the Burris pistol scopes that said the Burris scopes don't suffer from the same problem.  I was thinking about the 2-7x32 or the 3-12x32.  The Burris 3-12 might be overkill, and I haven't found any reviews of it.  I was wondering if anyone has any other suggested scopes to look at.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2006 at 11:09
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Dark Lord of Optics

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I would discourage a higher magnification scout scope setup.  2x to 4x is as high as I would go.  The only higher magnification pistol scope that worked reasonably well for me was Burris 2-7x pistol scope.  It is still reasonably difficult to use at high magnification and field of view becomes very narrow. 

 

For M39s there are several mounts out there.  The only one that consistently holds zero is the mount made by a gentleman named Darrel Harrison.  He operates through a website called www.milsurpshooter.net, if you ahve a hard time finding his coordinates there, let me know.  I've used about half a dozen of his mounts on a few different old rifles and they work uniformly well.  They bolt down and use four screw to prevent lateral movement.

 

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2006 at 20:39
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Wow there certainly is a lot of stuff on that web page.

         

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2006 at 00:46
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There are a lot of old-timers there who know a fair bit about rifles, but by and large not a whole lot about optics.  Very different crowd than here.  I learned a lot about milsurp rifles there, but you have to take a lot of it with a grain of salt and apply a "common sense" filter to many things.

Nevertheless, Darrel Harrison makes first rate scout scope mounts.  At one time or another I have played with his mounts for three different Mosin Nagants: M39, M38 and M91/30 and one for a Swiss K31.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2006 at 07:19
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ILya, Darrell's mount is the one I have in mind.  I'm on the list to get one of his next batch of M39 mounts.

 

OK, so assuming 4x is as high as one would typically want to go in a scout set-up, about how far does that let one shoot accurately?  I know this will depend on one's eye sight, breath and trigger control, etc., but I mean for the average Joe behind the trigger.  A guesstimation?

 

Also, if I'm only going as high as 4x, are there any advantages and/or drawbacks to variable vs. fixed power?

 

Thanks

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2006 at 12:16
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It all depends on what you were shooting at.  I never tried to shoot paper with a scout setup very far out, but I could comfortably hit an 8" metal plates with 2x pistol Bushnell Trophy scope when I had a scout mount on an M39.

 

I did not like it a whole lot when I had a fixed 4x scope setup as a socut due to a narrow field of view.  Also, one of the great things about a scout setup is the ability to shoot with both eyes open and acquire targets very quickly.  All of that is lost when you you go with a higher magnification. 

 

For those reasons I would recommend either a fixed 2x to 2.5x scope or a variable 2-7x.

 

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2006 at 22:05
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The 3-12 Burris Pistol scope SUCKS I absolutely hated the one I had they are not useable over about 6x and I compalined to customer service and got the run around.

I have a 1x Burris scout scope that is a great scope and I would say that the 2x might be a good choice the 4x is probably pushing your luck and anything over that in a scout scope forget it. 

People shoot iron sights at 1000 yards you can use a 1x at that distance also. You might think about an EOTech  or aimpoint as a possible for a scout type mount since it is lighter and 1x.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2006 at 08:50
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ILya, thanks for the info.  And thank you Urimaninaryfrnd.  I had beed wondering how a 3-12x pistol/scout scope could even be feasible, but there it was, marketed by a reputable scope manufacturer.

 

I'd be taking carefully executed shots with my M39 rather than quick shots.  The only reason I am looking at a scout set-up is because mine has a hexagonal receiver and I cannot find a good over-the-receiver mount for it.  I'd much rather slap a Super Sniper on it, but it doesn't appear to be do-able with this rifle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2006 at 11:42
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Most pistol scopes have much less eye relief at higher magnification.  That's more or less done by design wince most pistol shooters use high magnificationi scopes when they are shooting prone and the scope is much closer to the eye.  Also that allows some sort of a half-ass reasonable eye relief at higher magnification.  Some manufacturers do make pistol scopes with eye relief constant across the magnification range.  The most constant eye relief I saw was on a Bushnell Elite 3200 2-6x32 with a constant eye relief of about 20" across the magnification range.

 

However, that eye relief is too long for scout scope applications.  For a scout setup on most milsurplus rifles you want the eye relief of somewhere between 10 and 16 inches which Burris pistol scope should work well for.  Typically you have much more flexible eye position at lower magnification range, so the way I used pistol scopes as scout scopes was to set it up to fit perfectly for shooting prone with high magnifiaction.  Then lower magnification setting works well for shooting off-hand.

 

ILya

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