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Scoping The AR15

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 02:51
sholling View Drop Down
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I need to scope a pair of AR15s. I picked up a Stag Model 2 (M4 Carbine) in 5.56 as my home protection Stuff/Fan carbine and I'll be saving to mount an Aimpoint of some flavor by spring. I'm in my 50s and not hauling it off to war or anything. I'd like to do a CompM4 but that's a heck of a lot of money for something that will be used 99% for plinking. A 9000SC seems like a good budget choice as long as there isn't any forward light leakage from the objective. I see that on cheapo red dots - you can spot the glow of the objectives in the dark. Any thoughts on the 9000SC vs the CompM3 or CompM4? The 9000 is half the money. If I must I can live with the irons for now.

The second one I'm building. I'm leaning heavily toward a Stag 5H 6.8SPC flattop upper. This will be primarly a brush gun for hogs and deer out to no more than 300yds and most likely not past 150. The ballistics of the 6.8 SPC look pretty good. They claim 80% of the hitting power and range of a .308. My question is that I cannot put a ton of money into a high buck scope for the 6.8 - for now. I have a Bushnell/Browning 2-7x32 laying around, or I could pick up the Millett DMS 1-4x24 illuminated. The Millett looks like it would give me the best compromise between a tactical red dot and a low power hunting scope. Has anybody tried one out? How did they work? Do they suffer from forward light leakage? This rifle will also have back up the first in an emergency.

Edited by sholling - November/01/2008 at 02:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 08:16
mike650 View Drop Down
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I have a CompM2 for my ar15 and it's great.

There's one on the "sample list" as well as a 9000SC.

9299Aimpoint 9000SC Red Dot Sight 11410, Realtree APG finish, illuminated 4MOA dot reticle, includes weaver style camo rings, 100% new in box demo model $425.00 $299.95

9263Aimpoint CompM2 Red Dot Sight 10336, Matte finish, illuminated 4moa dot reticle, 30mm tube, Night Vision Compatible, ring marked $515.00 $379.95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 08:54
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I have not used the Millet but do hunt hogs at night with a 6.8
one thing I have found is a lot of scopes have too much lit up, either too bright or just too much stuff and it actually works against you in a hunting situation


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 10:04
mike650 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

I have not used the Millet but do hunt hogs at night with a 6.8
one thing I have found is a lot of scopes have too much lit up, either too bright or just too much stuff and it actually works against you in a hunting situation




One's with multiple settings are probably better. The Aimpoint has this. Some of the hunting scopes have day and night settings too to address this.


Edited by mike650 - November/01/2008 at 12:45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 10:45
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A few thoughts:

On the M4, if you cannot go all-out for the Aimpoint, the Burris version ain't bad. At the very lowest brightness setting, and in absolute darkness, it scatters a little light around the tube.  If you will be illuminating the target even just the slightest bit (which I highly recommend) you'll be fine.  I had the Burris dot sight and it isn't bad for the money.
I also hunt hogs and use a Springfield SOCOM with a Millett DMS scope.  For the ranges you  plan to shoot, it should be fine.  It is a decent deal for $200 but don't expect the very best glass - it is, after all, a $200 scope. 
The reitcle is good for spot-lighting or for shooting at dawn or dusk.  At its lowest setting, it is just visible with some light on the target.  (I took the Burris off and put the Millett on due to light scatter in the tube issue with the Burris.  Burris is OK for home defense - EoTech is better IMHO; for hogs or deer, the Millett is better.)


The Millett is a decent scope at a decent price; it's no "bargain of the century" but it ain't bad.  For red dots, Aimpoint is, hands down, the best.  If you can't afford the best at this point (and there is nothing on the sample list that would work), look at the Burris dot.
http://www.swfa.com/c-630-burris-xtreme-tactical-speeddot-sights.aspx


Hope that helps.

And, by the way, semi-auto with hogs is defintiely the way to go.  Piss off a 300+ pound Miss Piggy and you're gonna want more rounds at the ready.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - November/01/2008 at 10:46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 12:25
sholling View Drop Down
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For the M4 style 5.56 home defense carbine (see photo) how would you compare something like the EoTech 510 and the Aimpoint C3 that SWFA has bundled with a mount? I've never even seen an EoTech in person but I find the uncertain battery life worrisome. Of course I keep a hundred or so spare batteries around so I'm probably just paronoid. I assume that both are too low with the supplied mounts for an M4, am I wrong?


Photo of Stag Model 2 courtesy of Stag Arms

For the 6.8 SPC M4 I've herad rumors that there is a lot of tube scatter in that Millet DMS? Have you found this to me an issue? This rifle will be optics only to start.


Edited by sholling - November/01/2008 at 12:28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 12:59
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I've had both the Eotech 553 and a Aimpoint M2 and I still prefer the Aimpoint. I have used a few different Aimpoint models fairly extensively as well.  

Battery life is paramount to me, especially for a home defense set up like you mentioned. I like to be able to leave the sight on and pick it up a few months or YEARS later, and have it still working.
 
Others will tell you to get the Eotech because it has a "better field of view" and its "faster for target acquisition". Too many buttons and too little battery life for me. 
That said, several US troops have used the Eotech in combat situations and love them. What do I know?
 
Never used or even heard of how good or bad Aimpoints customer service is, but I had a friend that used Eotechs CS dept once and he came away from that experience VERY satisified. 
The folks@ Eotech really went out of their way to help him. Even upgraded his "F" model for a "G" model free of cost.
 
Nice rifle, that Stag.    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 13:02
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Oh, if weights an issue, get the Aimpoint T1 Micro Dot. That will be my next Aimpoint purchase.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 13:53
mike650 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Battery life is paramount to me, especially for a home defense set up like you mentioned. I like to be able to leave the sight on and pick it up a few months or YEARS later, and have it still working.
 

Nice rifle, that Stag.    


I've done the same with my Aimpoint by accident and with the same results. Thunbs%20Up

That is a nice AR!!
 


Edited by mike650 - November/01/2008 at 13:54
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 21:38
ccoker View Drop Down
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In all honesty, if you are using some illumination (I use the Texas Boars red LED setup) you don't really need an ill ret

a good bold reticle such as a german #4 works fine


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2008 at 21:47
sholling View Drop Down
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Ok now I'm confused. I'm not using illumination for hunting, I just thought that the DMS' circle-dot on a 1-4x scope would be super fast in target for a daylight hunt in thick brush.

And in a home defense situation I'm only going to have ambient light. I was just thinking that the DMS would make a fair cross between a red dot and a 1-4x scope - as long as it isn't giving away my position with tube scatter. I read that the early ones had an issue but I've also heard that they've made changes. Anyway nobody around here carries them for me to look for myself.

That was also my concern with the Aimpoints (for the 5.56), do the give away your position?

Thanks!



Edited by sholling - November/01/2008 at 21:56
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 05:05
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by sholling sholling wrote:

That was also my concern with the Aimpoints (for the 5.56), do the give away your position?

Thanks!

 
The dot is only be seen by the shooter. The dot can't be seen from the objective end of the Aimpoint. Same as with the Eotech.
Good question though.
 
I guess if the shooter were to have the brightness setting of his EO or Aimpoint set too high, the light from the dot may be able to partially illuminate the shooters face.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 05:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 14:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 14:33
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

http://www.downrange.tv/show2/
 
 


I had that same Aimpoint MarkIII that he first talked. It was the one to have back in the early 1980's and was very accurate.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 14:41
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Thunbs%20Up

How big was the dot, Mike?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 15:04
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Thunbs%20Up

How big was the dot, Mike?


Not very large at all, you could fine tune the size/intensity by slowly turning the on-off dial unlike the  compM2 that has click adjustments. It came with a polarizing filter, adapter for the ar15 (carry handle)  and I also had the Aimpoint 1-4x adapter with rubber eye cup that screwed onto the rear of the scope. We used to shoot quarters with it, tried moving up to dimes one day but gave up on that idea pretty quickly because we could never find 'em afterward.






Edited by mike650 - November/02/2008 at 15:23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 17:02
sholling View Drop Down
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That Burris Tactical looks close to perfect but reviews aren't so good. Plus nearly $800 was a bit more than planned to spend for two rifles much less one. I think I may just hold off the upper for the second AR and put my money into a quality reddot (CompC3???) for the Stag M4 and a deposit on another complete Stag. I can always go back and get an upper later. I might not be able to buy lowers or complete rifles in 6 months. I'm seriously drooling over the upcoming Stag 7 Hunter.

Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 17:11
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http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12977
Thats a really good deal, but remember, you can only dive 17' underwater with the C3 and NOT 150' like the M3. Wink

Edited by cheaptrick - November/02/2008 at 17:12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2008 at 17:37
sholling View Drop Down
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My scuba diving days are long over. Wink

It looks like about $425 for the package and the addition of rubber armor and the only thing missing from that package - the 30mm spacer to raise that Aimpoint up high enough to co-witness the sights. I can always add the kill flash (assuming it fits the CompC3) and flip up lens covers later.

Thanks again!
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