New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Scopes for use in the box
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Scopes for use in the box

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2004 at 11:32
in the box soon View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: November/26/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Hey all.  I'm new to the whole scope thing.  I've been using iron sights since I was a kid.  However, I am looking at a possible deployment and I was told a good scope is a must have.  I trust the guy I got that information from.  He said he used a Leupold Mark 4.  I would like some input from the people that know about scopes though.  Any thoughts would be great.   Thanks again. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2004 at 13:58
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20479
I'm not what one might call a Leupold fan, but the Mark 4 is a superb setup for LR work in a "unfriendly" enviorment. If you know what I mean...

Do you have a budget in mind??
Any certain distances you know you will be shooting??

Welcome to the forum! Watch your 6!!


Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2004 at 22:01
in the box soon View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: November/26/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5

Well... i have to say that in theory what is a budget when we're talking about staying alive.  but in reality i'm sure there is a budget.  but i'll have to take that one step at a time. 

 

well what i'm looking for is something that can be used in low light situations.  i'll prob have a mounted light too, for those closer shots.  i'm looking for something i can use close up and far away.  and something that will allow me see the target readily.  the scopes i used on my dad's ol huntin rifles had a very slim margin for error when you were aquiring a sight picture. 

 

well there ya go.  I was looking at the marine's newly issued scope.  but i've heard thats only good at a distance.  but it does use tridium, NO BATTERIES INCLUDED!   (sorry for the spelling....not my strong suit)

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2004 at 00:03
ranburr View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: May/16/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1082

ACOG!

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2004 at 06:36
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20479
I thought at first you were wanting to scope a SWS. An M-24 or equivelent. To much eggnog last nite!

If your wanting to scope a M16, then a ACOG would be an excellent choice.

A SN-12 or SN-4 from US Optics would be the heat as well. Expensive as hell, but what's a budget compared to your life, as you say??

They have a list of deals on their website, and have marked certain items down from time to time. I have seen SN-12's and 4's there recently.  

I have an Aimpoint on my AR for awhile and have shot man sized steel targets out to 200 meters with little problems. Could probably go to 300 meters with it.
You have shot out to 300 meters w/ iron sights for rifle qualifacation. Right?

The Aimpoint I have offers no magnifacation and a 4 moa dot.
Very quick target aquisition. It can literally be used at night. Batteries I have in it are still the originals that came with it. Excellent for CQB duty too.

The Aimpoint can be bought for less than $400. I would recommend a LaRue Tactical mount. They are outstanding!! AP and LaRue mount would be  less than  $500.
 
The Aimpoint or Eotech would be a cheap way to go.
ACOG, SN-12, etc. more expensive, but would offer you magnifaction if you felt you needed it.

Lastly, I would go to Snipers Hide or Sniper's Paradise and ask around to see what people that have been there have used or are using. Good intel from those sites. 

God bless. Thank you for your service to our country, Sir. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2004 at 11:08
in the box soon View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: November/26/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5

thanks for the intell cheaptrick.  I'll look into those sites too.  the ACOG that is currenly being used would be great, i know it would work.  but the one disadvantage that it has would be, it is only good at a distance.  no close shots.  but thats what iron sights are for i guess. 

 

i was told the leupold could to both close and far, but its target accqusion is difficult. 

 

and yes i've qualified at 300 meters.  lol but mansized target at 300 meters looks like your trying to shot an ant. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2004 at 11:29
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20479
Email sent.... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2004 at 15:25
ranburr View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: May/16/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1082

Actually, the ACOG works great at close range.  It uses the Biden or Binden or whatever it is called aiming concept.  This alloys you very fast close range shooting and it also allows you to bear down and get the full magnification for long range shooting.  In essence the ACOG gives you the best of both worlds.   

 

ranburr 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2004 at 16:23
in the box soon View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: November/26/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Really?  Okay thats news to me.  How does the ACOG work at close range?  If you use a flat top M-16 then you remove your iron sights.  Never using the ACOG makes it difficult to get a feel for its capibilities.  And that being said...is the ACOG available on the open market? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2004 at 14:13
ranburr View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: May/16/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1082

Look at SWFAs website, it gives a good description on how the ACOG works and they sell them.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/28/2004 at 21:47
redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: June/02/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1055

ACOG 4x32, not sure the model, but the military model with the sights on top

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2004 at 15:00
greentimber View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: December/01/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3

The NSN model does not have BAC and the iron sights are completely useless. If you're going to Iraq, get an Aimpoint Comp M2. If you're going to Afghanistan, get a TA31 with the chevron reticle.  I've been both places & that's what I'd choose for each.

 

 

Good luck & stay safe.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2004 at 15:51
MacDyver60 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: November/12/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8
I am an army Vet , I recommend you wait and see if your armorer will allow you to make any modifications to your weapon.
Some Commanders can be a bit anal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2004 at 16:43
redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: June/02/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1055

in every case i have seen, you are allowed to provide your own optic, thats why you see all those ACOGS over there, im not sure, but i dont think the US supplies them, but im not positive.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2004 at 12:08
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765

 

BAC - Bindon Aiming Concept
After many years of searching for and developing improved small arms weapons sights, Glyn Bindon made an amazing discovery. The legendary aiming speed of the Armson O.E.G. can be combined with the accuracy and precision of magnified scopes. What was discovered is that the human brain automatically switches to the best system when you look through the scope with both eyes open. Two major universities have confirmed that anyone with normal vision (over 95% of the population) can learn to use the brain powered zoom in seconds.

 

How the Bindon Aiming Concept Works
Both eyes must be open. Scan from left to right, while continuously scanning the brain will choose the non magnified version (your left eye), as soon as you near your target and stop on it your brain chooses to use the magnified version (your right eye). This gives you an unlimited field of view and makes it very easy to hit multiple targets or moving targets in any lighting conditions. It may sound confusing until you actually look through one, it is very simple and extremely effective.

 

The Nature of Binocular Sighting


Human vision is based upon a binocular (two eyes) presentation of visual evidence to the brain. The word binocular literally means using both eyes at the same time. We most often associate this word with binocular instruments such as field glasses or a binocular microscope. These instruments specifically strive to present the object to be viewed the same way to both eyes.

Vision research material was examined for its assistance to understand the optically aided weapon aiming process. Three major types of optical enhancement were compared. There are strong customer preferences in reticle designs, some simple reticles enhance the speed of target acquisition, others allow for greater precision in a given time limit.


The simple substitution of a bright red dot for the usual cross-hairs makes it very easy to keep both eyes open. Just as in the Single point or Armson O.E.G. sighting, the brain merges the two images. During dynamic movement, the scene through the telescope blurs because the image moves more rapidly due to magnification. The one eye sees the bright dot against the blurred target scene, so the brain picks the scene from the unaided eye. The shooter swings the weapon toward the target while perceiving the dot indicating where the weapon is pointed. As soon as the weapon begins to become steady in the target area, the brain switches to the magnified view.

A long search was made to try to combine the speed and non-battery features of the Singlepoint or Armson with the precision of the telescopic system. This discovery was made several years ago. Trijicon has sponsored research in the field of human vision to better understand this generic phenomenon. Although the study concentrated on the Armson O.E.G., some aspects are applicable also to the Bindon Aiming Concept.

 

 

 

Watch the BAC Demo

BAC Flash Demo (5MB)
Note: The BAC demo is very large and depending on your connection speed may take several minutes to open.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2004 at 12:40
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765

Another excellent choice is the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T 1-3x14.  It was developed for modern warfare where you have to engage targets inside a building then two blocks away while going to the next building.  The CQ/T is like an Aimpoint or EOTech when you set it to 1x (clearing buildings) then it works like an ACOG on 3x (long range)...it is the best of both worlds.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2004 at 19:32
in the box soon View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: November/26/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5

The ACOG and the Leupold were the two sights that looked the most promising.  Thanks everyone for your help.  I'll have to decide soon..as my ticket will probably come soon. 

 

How does the Leupold on 1x work for aquiring sight picture?  I would think that would be difficult in a stressful environment like that.  Also..not liking the reliance on batteries. Thats where the ACOG wins hands down.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2004 at 02:36
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20479
I would stay on the ACOG or Aimpoint.

As Pat Roger's would say" The Aimpoint rules under 100 meters."
Pat also tells of a "excellent Marine" who is having great success in the box with a ACOG.

Stay safe, Brother. God bless. Please inform us what you end up with.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2004 at 12:13
Chris Farris View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
swfa.com

Joined: October/01/2003
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 7765

1x is the same as no magnification, so the Leupold CQ/T on 1x works just like an Aimpoint or EOTech (super fast).  The reticle is still there if the battery dies.  One AA battery powers the Mark 4 CQ/T for up to 600+ hours at medium setting

CQ/T Battery

 

 

In addition to the circle dot reticle being extremely fast you can also use it to range.

 

Range Estimating with the Circle Dot Reticle
Estimating range using the Circle Dot reticle is simple. Place the target inside the circle of the reticle. At 3x the diameter equates to 6 feet in height at 100 yards. At 200 yards, 6 feet is measured from the dot to the edge of the circle.

 

Dot Size: 3 MOA at 3x, 9 MOA at 1x.

 

Circle Size: Edge to edge, the subtension of the circle is 18 inches at 25 yards, or 6 feet at 100 yards when set on 3x. From the center of the dot to the edge of the circle, the subtension is 6 feet at 200 yards when set on 3x.

 

Circle Line: The width of the line creating the circle is large enough to be easily visible, but thin enough so as not to obliterate an 18-inch object at 500 yards when set on 3x.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2004 at 18:55
D Wolf View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/01/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9

Check out EoTech,  They are awsome in low light shooting. And i think some models have a setting for using night vision goggles.

 

 

 

      Good luck over there.God Bless and thank you

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2004 at 17:40
Mithran View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: April/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 310

Just got back from the box in 2003.  We didn't have the ACOG's when we were there, but after getting back I learned and trained others to use them on M4's and M16A4's.  The best way to use an ACOG in close quarters is to use both eyes open.  It takes a little getting used to but if you stare at the triangle reticle with both eyes open the scope actually almost disapears.  All you see is a red triangle just like the Aimpoint or EO Tech's dot.  Put that triangle on the target and pull the trigger.  I've posted in the topic where Chris posted the article about Marines.  Having just gotten out of the Marine Corps being an 0311 I know how it is with the newer weapons.  No problem with this optic.  Farther out the scope is great.  I've hit targets from 800 meters out with it as well.  Used it with 9mm simmunitions in CQB and was able to easily clear rooms.  Great for quick range estimates and shooting precisley farther than 300 meters.  The only one I would maybe pick over the ACOG would be the EO Tech, for night time which I'll explain later.  Depending on what type of weapon you have, for example an M4 or M16A4 with rail system handguards and flat top.  I've shot the EO Tech as well on M4 and M249.  I mounted the EO Tech on the M4 right in front of the carrying handle.  Right in front of the handguard slip rings on the top handguard rail.  This allows use of iron sights if needed but also lets you take off the carrying handle and if you have a flat top, mount a PVS-14 behind the EO Tech.  Bam you have a night vision sight.  I have used this combo before and it works damn good.  I've never tried it but maybe if you had the PVS-14's you could mount it right in front of the ACOG and that might work.  Just tape over the tritium fiber optic on top of the scope so it won't be so bright.  Actually that's what I did while using the ACOG during day since the triangle was so bright it made it hard to make precision shots and at night or low light the tape came off.  Either one is good depending on the gear available to you.

 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Scopes for use in the box"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Vintage Leupold Westerner 8x scope in the box 50's NYBigbucks Rifle Scopes 2
CZ 527 SCOPE/ NO SCOPE? JAMINGRIZZ Rifle Scopes 16
what makes a scope a shogun scope? axaviere Shotgun / BlackPowder Scopes 5
Spirit Guns SGM-9PB 5.56 Pistol New In Box Unfired dillon_h Firearms For Sale 0
Out-of-the-box Remington 700 rifles Trickster Firearms 66
SWFA New in Box Discontinued Sale! Chris Farris II Rifle Scopes 30
Need a new Range box. LRSMike Shooting 8
FS: IOR 3-18x42FFP - New in box koshkin Optics For Sale 3
box test Brad4213 Rifle Scopes 12
Needs help with box test stickbow46 Varmint Scopes 12


This page was generated in 0.422 seconds.